2000 Polaris Genesis NO start... Got fuel, spark, HELP

[Uncletinman]

Got a 2000 Genesis 1200... Good compression, fuel, spark, but it just won't start.

I've swapped carbs with a known running machine and it just won't fire up. Got spark in all 3 cylinders.. 130psi compression. Drained the bottom of the block. Is there something I'm missing? Any guidance or suggestion would be greatly appreciated. I'm totally stumped with this one. Help.....


1) removed cover... checked TDC for MAG cylinder.
2) swapped coils.
3 compression tested 130 across all 3 cylinders
4) removed jet pump to see if it was seized
5) spark plugs are getting flooded and doesn't seem to be igniting.... there's no black to the plugs.
6) flushed out all fuel... new fuel in system. Fuel lines are not the grey originals.
7) drained the block of any excessive fluids
swapped for a known working set of carbs.
9) battery voltage is good... cranking with booster pack.
10) HELP

[K447]

What is the battery voltage when cranking?

Did you confirm the base ignition timing is correct? With MAG piston at TDC the flywheel timing marks should be visible through the inspection port on top of the flywheel housing.

If the flywheel has sheared the woodruff indexing key the ignition timing will be incorrect for all cylinders.

Are the spark plugs firing when installed?

If spark is marginal when testing for spark, removing a spark plug (or all of them) can allow spark but when the plugs are installed the cranking RPM is reduced (more compression load on the starter motor) and spark can go away. Use a spare spark plug to check for spark, leave all spark plugs installed.

Use the correct spark plugs, of course.

Is the spark bright blue, strong and fires rapidly while cranking? A weak battery can cause slow cranking and only the occasional spark.

[Uncletinman]

Thanks for your reply..

I just pulled the cover off.... and it's at TDC

Yes.. it's sparking with plugs installed and testing with another plug externally. The spark is blue and proper..

the flywheel has some spotty corrosion, but nothing severe..


spark plugs NGK PR9ES


What next?

[Uncletinman]

Is it possible that the jet drive is seizing up that it's creating enough drag to stop it from starting? I'm just throwing random ideas.

[Uncletinman]

Removed the jet drive.. It's not seized.

[Uncletinman]

So there's compression, spark, fuel, but it's not firing... The plugs are wet, but doesn't seem to be igniting. weak coil?

[K447]

- I just pulled the cover off.... and it's at TDC

... it's sparking with plugs installed and testing with another plug externally. The spark is blue and proper..

-

So there's compression, spark, fuel, but it's not firing... The plugs are wet, but doesn't seem to be igniting.

weak coil?

This is a carburetor engine, not Ficht duel injection, correct?

Check the wiring for correct firing order. The stator wires to the CDI (bullet connectors) are color coded. As are the wires from CDI to the ignition coil pack.

But the spark plug wires from ignition coil to spark plugs/cylinders are not color coded. It is possible that someone has swapped around the ignition wires to the wrong cylinders.

One way to check this is to, one at a time, connect each plug wires to the MAG spark plug. See if any of the three plug wires will cause that cylinder to fire 'properly'.

If one wire does, mark it as MAG. Set it aside. Now try each of the other two wires JUST on the center cylinder. If one of those wires actually causes the center to fire, mark it and set it aside.

Now connect the remaining wire to the PTO cylinder. Does THAT wire fire that cylinder? If yes, mark it.

[K447]

You removed what cover? The flywheel housing?

If so, be aware that the front part of the flywheel housing has the Bendix support front bushing. With the flywheel cover removed cranking the engine puts a huge strain on the Bendix and the remaining rear bushing.

Also, don't lose any of the small parts that fit in front of the Bendix. There is a tension spring with plastic tip (that likes to disappear under the engine) and a flat washer.

[Uncletinman]

Yes.. it's a carbed engine.... my FICHT one fires up so nicely... I just tore that engine apart last week.... that's a whole different drama/story, but it's running great.

I have the box open. the wires are correct... This was a running machine in the fall before winter storage.. It just won't start after winter... So all the wiring and ignition wires should be correct.

I know about the Bendix supporting on the cover.. i've taken the cover off more than enough times now. I'm just super stumped with this right now. I feel like I've covered all the obvious things, but must be missing something... hence for the posts seeking for any pointers.

What I'm finding strange is the plugs are getting somewhat wet/flooded... almost signaling a no spark symptom... and no combustion happening... there's no temperature to the plugs after attempting to fire even for long durations.... So... could that be the issure? no spark? but there's spark when I test them externally.... each wire has spark.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[Uncletinman]

You removed what cover? The flywheel housing?

If so, be aware that the front part of the flywheel housing has the Bendix support front bushing. With the flywheel cover removed cranking the engine puts a huge strain on the Bendix and the remaining rear bushing.

Also, don’t lose any of the small parts that fit in front of the Bendix. There is a tension spring with plastic tip (that likes to disappear under the engine) and a flat washer.

I was browsing another thread about no spark... and the mention of CDI and base timing

http://greenhulk.net/showthread.php?t=294013&page=2

I'm wondering if the timing of the CDI being off would cause a spark timing issue? Can the timing be so far off that it would not fire up?

[K447]

I was browsing another thread about no spark... and the mention of CDI and base timing

http://greenhulk.net/showthread.php?t=294013&page=2

I'm wondering if the timing of the CDI being off would cause a spark timing issue? Can the timing be so far off that it would not fire up?

The timing of the CDI is the timing of the spark plugs.

The flywheel has a certain base timing (mechanically) and the CDI is programmed for a certain base timing. The flywheel woodruff key is there to ensure the base timing of the engine is that of the flywheel.

If the flywheel has rotated relative to the woodruff key slot (and therefore sheared the key) then the base timing becomes unknown and certainly well outside of specification.

To clarify, you moved the front piston to exact top center and the flywheel timing marks then showed zero degrees at the index mark, also at the very top of the flywheel. This is the mechanical timing of your engine, correct?

If the flywheel is in alignment with the woodruff key slot (key present and not sheared) then the mechanical base timing is going to be correct.

A mismatch between regular and high-start CDI or flywheel should not prevent the engine from starting, but it may run poorly.

[Uncletinman]

The timing of the CDI is the timing of the spark plugs.


To clarify, you moved the front piston to exact top center and the flywheel timing marks then showed zero degrees at the index mark, also at the very top of the flywheel. This is the mechanical timing of your engine, correct?

If the flywheel is in alignment with the woodruff key slot (key present and not sheared) then the mechanical base timing is going to be correct.

A mismatch between regular and high-start CDI or flywheel should not prevent the engine from starting, but it may run poorly.

Yes... correct... MAG piston at the top and flywheel marks on the top.

I guess I can pull the flywheel off and take a look at the key.

I'm so confused why it's not firing up. Compression, fuel, spark..

[randys]

Have you tried starting with a battery charger (14.4v) hooked up? Capacitors die in 20 year old CDIs and need extra voltage to compensate when starting off a battery. I recently switched to one of those lithium 13.3v batteries and all my starting issues disappeared.

[Uncletinman]

Have you tried starting with a battery charger (14.4v) hooked up? Capacitors die in 20 year old CDIs and need extra voltage to compensate when starting off a battery. I recently switched to one of those lithium 13.3v batteries and all my starting issues disappeared.

I've had booster packs hooked up.. There's spark, but it's just not firing up. I haven't touched it in awhile.. It'll be a winter project now. Seems like it's getting over flooded. So will probably turn down the adjustment screws and try from there.

[32DegH2O]

Did you check the reeds? Is the exhaust clear of debris from engine to hull exit?...ie. a critter making a nest in the exhaust pipe or waterbox.