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Why almost every 40 weight oil is better than BRP XPS "Summer Blend"

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  • Why almost every 40 weight oil is better than BRP XPS "Summer Blend"

    I love the educational opportunities of an oil thread. There is the real world and there is the laboratory of minutiae and opinion.
    BRP recommends their summer blend 5W-40 for 4Tec engines. It used to be 10W, but I don't know why they changed especially since our skis never see temps cool enough to need a 5W. At least now, they put the weight on the bottle. They still don't say if it is JASO MA or MA2 certified. They do list it is as being safe for wet clutches.

    The reason that it is inferior to other oils, at least in the lab is that it is API SM certified. Just like with most things from the EPA, the latest API certs are usually a compromise of lubrication vs environmental concerns. Any oil that is SM/N will be of lower quality in our machines than SL or SJ. Its all about the phosphorus and zinc in the additive packages. ZDDP protects bearings and decreases wear, but the European Union wanted the levels decreased and Rotax being Austrian conformed with a lower quality oil.

    SN only allows a max of 800 parts per million of zinc/phos and SL/SJ allows 1400 ppm. That is why most motorcycle oil will be SL or SJ rather than SN. As I have written in other oil threads, almost any 40 wt oil that doesn't state that it is "energy conserving" in the API starburst and is MA certified will work just fine. Yes, that certainly includes full synthetics that BRP clearly states with a notice as never to use with SC equipped engines. That is total nonsense as synthetics are no "slicker" than mineral based oils. Almost every synthetic motorcycle oil is MA certified for wet clutches. Its simply wrong of BRP to tell you that you can only use their semi syn or a mineral based alternative oil. This must be a bit of covering their butts and the pre 08 SC washer failures. Lawyers shouldn't write shop manuals.

    All this being said, if you want to use XPS 5W-40, do so and support your local dealer or the GH website. You will be missing the very best lubrication and protection for your engine, but you most likely will never know it. I also want to add that my favorite oil (Rotella T6 5w-40) no longer has a gasoline API rating. Shell did not want to lower the zinc....again to conform to the EU, so it dropped the API rating other than the CJ-4 diesel rating. As crazy as it sounds, you may want to avoid Rotella and use one of the many fine motorcycle oils that have an API gas rating to avoid any warranty issues with BRP.
    2021 RXP X 300
    2018 RXP X 300
    2003 XP DI
    1999 XPL (sold)
    2-1997 XP (sold)
    1997 GP1200 (sold in a month)
    2-1994 Xi-R (sold)
    2-1993 Xi (sold)

  • #2
    its funny you write this post as I’ve spent hours over the last few days researching this out for myself.

    The thing is you stated the sn rating requires less then 800ppm zddp, which is correct. But this move was to prevent pre mature catalytic converter failure.

    sl oils allowed 1000 ppm zddp.

    The VOA for rotella t6 5w40 CK-4 is between 1100 and 1200 ppm zddp this oil does not carry the API sn designation because it’s over 800 ppm. Here is a good read



    Also for the real sticklers out there shell rotella t6 5w40 states it is jaso ma approved along with claims from Amsoil yet when you go to JASO certification page they are not listed ... bel ray is on this list to name another reputable company.

    Back of shell t6 5w50 bottle
    “...API: CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4 ACEA E9, JASO DH-2, Cummins CES 20086; Volvo VDS-4.5; Detroit Fluid Specification DDC (DFS) 93K222, Caterpillar ECF-2/ECF-3, MAN M3575, JASO MA/ MA2, Allison TES 439, MB-Approval 228.31...”https://rotella.shell.com/en_us/prod...f/t6-5w-40.pdf

    Numerous sources state you won’t have an issue running a ck-4 oil in a gas engine as long as there is no catalytic converter.

    I personally use rotella t6 5w40 in 2 skis and 2 race bikes knock wood haven’t had any issues (highly doubt I will) at least not from this

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    • #3
      I am going to miss these oil threads when electric takes over...

      Comment


      • #4
        Nah. Then we will have fusion reactor gas threads because that's the only way the energy density will ever be there.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks for the links, good info.
          My source shows the SL rating is spec 1000 - 1400 ppm, not 1000 max.

          The reason that I brought up Rotella was Shell dropping the API gas rating. I wanted to disclose that because BRP specifies a SL, SJ, SM or SN MA MA2 rated oil. Rotella T6 does not fit that requirement due to Shell's decision to remove the API gas rating rather than the quality of the additive package.

          The purpose of this thread was to show that there are many oil out there that will do a better job at lubricating our engines at a lower cost than XPS 5W-40. I also provided the numbers and an explanation as to why the oils are better and not just my opinions.
          2021 RXP X 300
          2018 RXP X 300
          2003 XP DI
          1999 XPL (sold)
          2-1997 XP (sold)
          1997 GP1200 (sold in a month)
          2-1994 Xi-R (sold)
          2-1993 Xi (sold)

          Comment


          • #6
            Oh no Mr. Bill! Not another oil thread...

            Comment


            • #7
              There is definitely conflicting data.... I own a 2017 6.7 powerstroke and from what I was reading Ford didn’t have their approval on the CK-4/SM dual rated oil due to the fact that the ZDDP didnt have a high enough ppm, wondering if this was a contributing factor to dropping the gas rating

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ncdoo View Post
                Oh no Mr. Bill! Not another oil thread...
                Come on NC, its not an oil thread. Its a value thread! You know, better product for less money. The product just happens to be oil.
                2021 RXP X 300
                2018 RXP X 300
                2003 XP DI
                1999 XPL (sold)
                2-1997 XP (sold)
                1997 GP1200 (sold in a month)
                2-1994 Xi-R (sold)
                2-1993 Xi (sold)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Does "Bob is the Oil Guy" have a PWC forum? Those guys are lubrication crazy!!!
                  2019 RXT X 300
                  2019 Spark TRIXX

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by guybb3 View Post
                    Does "Bob is the Oil Guy" have a PWC forum? Those guys are lubrication crazy!!!
                    I see PWC questions on BITOG sometimes. There are several really knowledgeable energy folks on that site. But like most oil threads, sometimes less correct statements will be posted. Those posts do seem to get corrected pretty quickly on BITOG.
                    2021 RXP X 300
                    2018 RXP X 300
                    2003 XP DI
                    1999 XPL (sold)
                    2-1997 XP (sold)
                    1997 GP1200 (sold in a month)
                    2-1994 Xi-R (sold)
                    2-1993 Xi (sold)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I would be curious on what oil the folks who replied to this thread use?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Phence View Post
                        I would be curious on what oil the folks who replied to this thread use?
                        I run rotella t6 5w40 in both skis .. I rebuilt the one a few years back and broke it in with rotella t4 15w40 I would be lucky to put on an average of 15 hours per machine a Summer So they are definitely over serviced my gsxr600 and Cbr600rr gets oil and filter every 2nd track day, again over serviced. My truck gets a service every 8000km which works out to be between 120 and 135 engine hours consecutively. Which is just over half Fords recommendations.

                        Its nice to to only stock one oil and not have 5 oils laying around.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Team Bilford View Post
                          I see PWC questions on BITOG sometimes. There are several really knowledgeable energy folks on that site. But like most oil threads, sometimes less correct statements will be posted. Those posts do seem to get corrected pretty quickly on BITOG.
                          I read a little bit over there, after this thread, yesterday. I would think the Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 is the way to go. Here is what the Mobil 1 site says.

                          Mobil 1 RacingÔäó 4T 10W-40 motorcycle oil is designed primarily for on-road, high-performance, four-cycle sport bikes. It also may be used in other types of on- and off-road four-cycle motorcycles that specify the use of 10W-40 engine oil.
                          The unique, synthetic structure of the Mobil 1Ôäó motorcycle oil formulations offers advantages beyond conventional motorcycle oils of similar viscosities.

                          This full synthetic motorcycle oil helps provide excellent performance in motorcycle engines that are either:
                          • Designed with a common engine/transmission lubrication system, or
                          • Designed so that the engine lubrication system is separate from the transmission system. (Follow the manufacturer's recommendation for the type of fluid to be used in the transmission.)


                          It is also JASO MA and JASO MA2 rated.
                          2019 RXT X 300
                          2019 Spark TRIXX

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by guybb3 View Post
                            I read a little bit over there, after this thread, yesterday. I would think the Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 is the way to go. Here is what the Mobil 1 site says.

                            Mobil 1 RacingÔäó 4T 10W-40 motorcycle oil is designed primarily for on-road, high-performance, four-cycle sport bikes. It also may be used in other types of on- and off-road four-cycle motorcycles that specify the use of 10W-40 engine oil.
                            The unique, synthetic structure of the Mobil 1Ôäó motorcycle oil formulations offers advantages beyond conventional motorcycle oils of similar viscosities.



                            This full synthetic motorcycle oil helps provide excellent performance in motorcycle engines that are either:
                            • Designed with a common engine/transmission lubrication system, or
                            • Designed so that the engine lubrication system is separate from the transmission system. (Follow the manufacturer's recommendation for the type of fluid to be used in the transmission.)
                            It is also JASO MA and JASO MA2 rated.
                            Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W40 would be a fine choice. It would be my 4th pick behind Rotella T6, Valvoline Synthetic Motorcycle (sliver bottle), Castrol Power One. The reason is because it is API SN. I have no idea why they would do that because having "Racing" in the name gives them an exemption on the SN requirements. Usually a "Racing" oil has a much higher level of zinc and phosphorus in its additive package. Compare VOA for Mobil Racing 4T vs the other fine motorcycle oils that are SL and SJ.

                            Again, it may make no difference in the real world, but any SN oil will be inferior in our application.
                            2021 RXP X 300
                            2018 RXP X 300
                            2003 XP DI
                            1999 XPL (sold)
                            2-1997 XP (sold)
                            1997 GP1200 (sold in a month)
                            2-1994 Xi-R (sold)
                            2-1993 Xi (sold)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 is API SN, but has a high rating of phosphorus and zinc. Click image for larger version

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