LT/P alternatives to ST rated trailer tires?

[Team Bilford]

Its trailers less than 10,000 lbs, not more than. The reg is not limited to RVs. It is buses, trucks, trailers......with P rated tires.
The ST label is a restriction label, not a better than label. They are special because they are limited to trailer use. The P label is a higher standard than ST.

[Vman]

Its trailers less than 10,000 lbs, not more than. The reg is not limited to RVs. It is buses, trucks, trailers......with P rated tires.

Here is the Federal regulation:

It clearly states the opposite of Your claims.

49 CFR 571.120 - Tire selection and rims and motor home/recreation vehicle trailer load carrying capacity information for motor vehicles with a GVWR of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).

Here is a link to the document on the U.S. Government Publishing Office Page:

https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/CFR-2011-title49-vol6/CFR-2011-title49-vol6-sec571-120

If You have some other information on this regulation or another that is relevant then post it and link it in order to support Your statements.

[Vman]

The ST label is a restriction label, not a better than label. They are special because they are limited to trailer use. The P label is a higher standard than ST.

They are special because they are designed and intended for trailer use.

I'm not even gonna ask if You have any actual facts to support these additional claims... one thing at a time, don't cha know...

[Team Bilford]

S4.2.2.2 When passenger car (P-metric) tires are installedon an MPV, truck, bus, or trailer, each tire's load rating isreduced by dividing it by 1.10 before determining, underS4.2.2.1, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tiresfitted to an axle.

Vman,
I think some of your resistance is based on wanting to see a regulation that states that you can use a P or LT tire on a trailer. P rated tires are DOT certified and marked on the tire. The tire's authorization is only limited by its load capacity not what it is attached to. The fact that the regulators ask for the capacity to be decreased by 10% on certain stated uses means that it is approved for those uses. Look at ST tires. They specifically state that they can not be used on passenger vehicles. The P tire does not state that it can not be used on trailers.

The only regulatory issue is that tires/wheel shall meet or exceed AXLE load ratings. In the case of P tires, DOT wants the stated capacity derated 10% when used on trailers. There is no legal requirement to use ST tires on ANY trailer, although most trailer manufacturers will use ST tires on their stated certification placard. Semi trailers would be an exception to this since they use the same tire as the tractors.

Your statement of ST tires being designed and intended for trailer use should really state that ST tires are designed and LIMITED to trailer use. P tires are not limited to passenger cars just as LT tires are not limited to light trucks. Good discussion.

[Vman]

It is a good discussion. It is not something I would want to be in a position to discuss or defend in any type of litigation scenario.

Tires, You gotta think in terms of worst case scenarios; life and death, lawyers, litigation, and liability... safety first and definitely foremost.

Think the Michelin man is gonna go on the record as endorsing P rated tires for trailer use?

How many expert witnesses would some insurance company lawyer produce stating that the tire was not designed for the application in which it was used?

Ya gotta ask would Goodyear or any other national tire chain or reputable tire shop install P tires on Your trailer... there's a reason they won't.

Would You wanna take the chance of being in that position?

I would need some pretty definitive statements from players of authority before I risk that exposure, and I have yet to see any. Matter of fact I haven't been able to find any case where P rated tires are recommended for trailer use by anyone who would be considered qualified to do so... please let me know if You're aware of one.

I'll just stick to the ST's and avoid the possibility of these questions being posed altogether.

[Beernutz]

...Ya gotta ask would Goodyear or any other national tire chain or reputable tire shop install P tires on Your trailer... there's a reason they won't. They absolutely will. I speak from the experience of working for one of the largest retail tire chains in the country, who also happened to be owned by the largest rubber manufacturer in the world.

I would need some pretty definitive statements from players of authority before I risk that exposure, and I have yet to see any. Matter of fact I haven't been able to find any case where P rated tires are recommended for trailer use by anyone who would be considered qualified to do so... please let me know if You're aware of one. Am I qualified? I was heavily trained both as a technician and eventually as a service manager on what was and was not allowed for both the safety and comfort of customers.

I'll just stick to the ST's and avoid the possibility of these questions being posed altogether.

Mind you, there's definitely a difference between running P metric tires on something like my boat trailer (they were on it when we got it, then immediately changed to LTs)


and on a two place PWC trailer. Much different loads that should be treated as such.

[Team Bilford]

Beernutz,
What size LTs are you running on that boat trailer?

[Vman]

Originally Posted by Vman...Ya gotta ask would Goodyear or any other national tire chain or reputable tire shop install P tires on Your trailer... there's a reason they won't. They absolutely will. I speak from the experience of working for one of the largest retail tire chains in the country, who also happened to be owned by the largest rubber manufacturer in the world.

I would need some pretty definitive statements from players of authority before I risk that exposure, and I have yet to see any. Matter of fact I haven't been able to find any case where P rated tires are recommended for trailer use by anyone who would be considered qualified to do so... please let me know if You're aware of one. Am I qualified? I was heavily trained both as a technician and eventually as a service manager on what was and was not allowed for both the safety and comfort of customers.


I'll just stick to the ST's and avoid the possibility of these questions being posed altogether.

Would it surprise You that many shops won't? I have seen this myself many times, in many different shops. One manager form a rather large and reputable shop wouldn't even allow P rated radials on my F-150 because the door label indicated LT tires as oem. I questioned, explained, (they were only LT's because of the FX4 package) but his one word answer was "liability".

Are You qualified? I have no idea. Who trained You? Would courts of Law recognize You as an "expert"? (No offense intended because You may well be) The better question would be: If it were Your shop, Your insurance, Your $, etc. on the line... would You be recommending, selling, installing P tires to retail trailer customers. Myself, I wouldn't want to chance a potential can of worms.

Perhaps I am skeptical and overly cautious because I have been directly involved in litigations in this particular field and would subsequently advise anyone to completely avoid them altogether if possible, even though the chance of disaster may be slim- it does happen.

I guess that's the way I view this tire thing...

It would take quite a bit of reassurance for me to feel comfortable doing it or recommending it to others.

[Vman]

Funny side note related to this thread: Another hobby I have is street bikes.

Some of these guys run car tires on their Harley's! I have no idea if it's legal, illegal, covered in some sub paragraph of Title 49 or some State's MV Law.

Needless to say, I'm too chicken to try that one too!

https://jalopnik.com/things-to-consider-before-you-put-car-tires-on-your-mot-1841453842

[Team Bilford]

Funny side note related to this thread: Another hobby I have is street bikes.

Some of these guys run car tires on their Harley's! I have no idea if it's legal, illegal, covered in some sub paragraph of Title 49 or some State's MV Law.

Needless to say, I'm too chicken to try that one too!

https://jalopnik.com/things-to-consi...mot-1841453842

Its perfectly legal to run P tires on the rear of a motorcycle that fits the specified diameter and width of the wheel spec. Remember if the tire has a DOT registration and is used within the capacity specs, it doesn't matter what its attached to.

I have a ST1300 and it of course has MC spec tires, but I know of many people that run car tires on the rear of Gold Wings as well as the wide tire choppers. I don't know the size of the tire used on the Wings, but they seem to handle pretty well even when they hit some twisties. The owners report that the Wings are more stable with a more neutral attitude. While the flatter bottom gives them the ride that they like, I would be concerned about the sudden and acute side wall to tread union angle. I would never put one on my bike.

[Vman]

Its perfectly legal to run P tires on the rear of a motorcycle Remember if the tire has a DOT registration and is used within the capacity specs, it doesn't matter what its attached to.

It is however illegal to run ST tires on a passenger vehicle

Well going by that logic, how then would an ST tire be illegal for use on a passenger vehicle? Provided it met capacity specs, of course.

Wouldn't want to be in the position of explaining why a car tire was installed on my motorcycle to any legislative body of authority in the event of a legal or civil action... but that's just me.

Again... how many tire manufacturers are gonna go on record saying their car tires are fine for use on a motorcycle? I would guess 0.

[K447]

This discussion has moved away from the OP inquiry and the info he was looking for.

Would you guys be Ok to move the P/LT/ST ‘tire is legal’ posts to a separate thread?