Towing Double Trailers

[TorontoDan]

Hey guys,

I'm from Ontario, and own a commercially registered vehicle. This permits me to tow 2 trailers under the local laws. I was curious if anyone has ever added a hitch to the back of their PWC trailer and attached another PWC trailer to it for double towing.

I know this set-up would have to be taken apart to launch the machines but considering I have a few long distance trips planned, this would save us from having to buy a double trailer/tw'n'one or take 2 vehicles.

Thanks

[K447]

… I’m from Ontario, and own a commercially registered vehicle. This permits me to tow 2 trailers under the local laws. …

Are there specific requirements and restrictions, such as the first trailer must be a fifth wheel?

Must one or both trailers have trailer brakes?
Must the first trailer’s brakes be electric, not surge?

Restrictions or requirements for the tow vehicle, such as must be a pickup truck minimum or must be a commercial grade tow vehicle?

[TorontoDan]

Towing Double Trailers

Are there specific requirements and restrictions, such as the first trailer must be a fifth wheel?

Must one or both trailers have trailer brakes?
Must the first trailer's brakes be electric, not surge?

Restrictions or requirements for the tow vehicle, such as must be a pickup truck minimum or must be a commercial grade tow vehicle?

The only requirements that I've been able to find are:

-Commercially registered vehicle (even if registered for personal use but excludes cars, SUVs and vans. So basically you need a pickup truck with black plates)

-Does not exceed 75' 6ÔÇØ or 23 meters

-Does not exceed 4600kg in weight

I could be missing some but these are the only ones I've been able to find.

It also states that if the trailer combination sways excessively, it is subject to police intervention but I would imagine that would be the case if you had 1 or 2 trailers. So weight distribution would need to be looked at.

[K447]

Somewhere on GH there have been prior threads discussing towing a PWC trailer behind another trailer, PWC or otherwise. If you can find those threads and posts it might be helpful.

One of the unwanted effects of adding a tow point to the rear of the trailer is that a PWC trailer tongue weight is derived from the ratio of total weight forward of he trailer axle vs. weight behind the trailer axle. Adding a hitch behind the first trailer causes all of the tongue weight of the second trailer to be leveraged far behind the first trailer's axle. The net effect is to lift the first trailer tongue.

To compensate for that added rear hitch download, all the PWC on the first trailer must be shifted forward enough that the weight on the primary tow ball is increased to a proper level.
But, what is the calculation for optimal amount of weight on the front tow ball when there is another trailer behind the first?

The answer seems to be unclear. All the rules of thumb for tongue weight proportions are based on a single trailer, such as 10% tongue weight or whatever. One of the purposes in having 'correct' tongue weight is to avoid unwanted 'tail wagging the dog' dynamics should the vehicle combination encounter unwanted dynamic conditions such as an emergency lane change at highway speeds or emergency hard braking combined with evasive steering maneuvers. 'Speed wobble' instability tendencies at higher speeds is also unwanted.

With a second trailer back there, what amount of tongue weight should each trailer impose on the tow ball that it is attached to?

[moparguy]

The only requirements that I've been able to find are:

-Commercially registered vehicle (even if registered for personal use. Basically if you have black plates, you fit this requirement)

-Does not exceed 75' 6ÔÇØ or 23 meters

-Does not exceed 4600kg in weight

I could be missing some but these are the only ones I've been able to find.

It also states that if the trailer combination sways excessively, it is subject to police intervention but I would imagine that would be the case if you had 1 or 2 trailers. So weight distribution would need to be looked at.

Good luck explaining your setup to M.T.O(our version of D.O.T) and say hello to demerit points against your cdl

[K447]

The only requirements that I've been able to find are:

-Commercially registered vehicle -

-Does not exceed 4600kg in weight -

Is that for just the pair of trailers or total combined weight including the tow vehicle?

[TorontoDan]

Towing Double Trailers

Is that for just the pair of trailers or total combined weight including the tow vehicle?

I believe that is for ÔÇ£towed vehicleÔÇØ as stated on the rear of your Ontario drivers' license. So the combined weight of the trailers I would say.

Good luck explaining your setup to M.T.O(our version of D.O.T) and say hello to demerit points against your cdl

This definitely warrants a call to them to find out for sure. But I do not have a CDL. My truck is commercially registered for personal use.

[moparguy]

I believe that is for ÔÇ£towed vehicleÔÇØ as stated on the rear of your Ontario drivers' license. So the combined weight of the trailers I would say.



This definitely warrants a call to them to find out for sure. But I do not have a CDL. My truck is commercially registered for personal use.

In Ontario, all trucks have "commercial plates" and they give you a silly red sticker that says "for personal use only". To register a vehicle commercially in the province of Ontario, you would need
A. A RIN number and inorder to obtain that, you need the articles of incorporation of the business, 2 utility bills showing company name and address and the drivers license of one of the listed directors of the corporation.
B. You would need to obtain a CVOR # from service ontario
C. Commercial vehicle insurance
D. . If you are planning to take this setup on roads in Southern Ontario, please let me know, so I can advise my family and friends to stay off the road when that death trap is rolling along.

2 tow vehicles is safe and legal, running a tandem setup with ball mount hitches I doubt is legal(have to check HTA) at the very least wreckless and sketchy a.f

[TorontoDan]

Towing Double Trailers

In Ontario, all trucks have "commercial plates" and they give you a silly red sticker that says "for personal use only". To register a vehicle commercially in the province of Ontario, you would need
A. A RIN number and inorder to obtain that, you need the articles of incorporation of the business, 2 utility bills showing company name and address and the drivers license of one of the listed directors of the corporation.
B. You would need to obtain a CVOR # from service ontario
C. Commercial vehicle insurance
D. . If you are planning to take this setup on roads in Southern Ontario, please let me know, so I can advise my family and friends to stay off the road when that death trap is rolling along.

2 tow vehicles is safe and legal, running a tandem setup with ball mount hitches I doubt is legal(have to check HTA) at the very least wreckless and sketchy a.f

I understand those are the requirements if you're actually using the vehicle for business. But in the context of the tandem trailer law, just a pickup truck with black plates is sufficient based on the things I have read thus far. Both towed vehicles would be recreational.

However, based on the replies I've been reading, it seems there hasn't been enough thought put into this set up and can be unsafe which is enough for me to not do it. The point of this post was to find out if people have done it and more importantly, done it safely and reliably.

[K447]

… Does not exceed 4600kg in weight ...

Is that for just the pair of trailers or total combined weight including the tow vehicle?

I believe that is for “towed vehicle” as stated on the rear of your Ontario drivers’ license. So the combined weight of the trailers I would say. …

This appears to be the relevant summarizing web page.

https://www.ontario.ca/document/official-mto-drivers-handbook/towing

These definitions might help;

https://www.ontario.ca/document/official-ministry-transportation-mto-truck-handbook/definitions

Regarding legal rules, wording and definitions matter.

Gross vehicle weight is not defined on that page, but to my reading ‘gross weight’ means all of it. Truck and whatever is being towed, the grand total weight of the entire rig.


Commercial motor vehicle:
any motor vehicle with a permanently attached truck or delivery body, including ambulances, hearses, casket wagons, fire apparatus, buses and tractors used for hauling loads.

Reads like you can tow double (well, maybe) if you buy an old hearse or ambulance (casket wagon), fire apparatus, even a bus …

[K447]

- based on the replies I've been reading, it seems there hasn't been enough thought put into this set up and can be unsafe which is enough for me to not do it. The point of this post was to find out if people have done it and more importantly, done it safely and reliably.

When I owned three PWC that I wanted to take together as a regular occurrence, I decided to upgrade my trailer such that all three watercraft could be carried together.

I selected a PWC trailer for which the frame was rated for 4,000 pounds of load weight, with factory brakes and double axles. That trailer was then extended and modified to fit a third PWC.

http://greenhulk.net/showthread.php?t=296095&p=3154864&viewfull=1#post3154864

It was not inexpensive and it is somewhat longer than the original WC2-2 Triton trailer, which itself is longer than many typical PWC trailers.
It does tow nicely and behaves even during simulated and rather real emergency highway moments.

I have seen a handful of others with custom or modified boat trailers that carry three or more PWC.

Four place PWC trailers also exist and are available new and used. Longer again and can be something of a hassle to store and park when not in use.

[TorontoDan]

This appears to be the relevant summarizing web page.

https://www.ontario.ca/document/official-mto-drivers-handbook/towing

These definitions might help;

https://www.ontario.ca/document/official-ministry-transportation-mto-truck-handbook/definitions

Regarding legal rules, wording and definitions matter.

Gross vehicle weight is not defined on that page, but to my reading 'gross weight' means all of it. Truck and whatever is being towed, the grand total weight of the entire rig.


Commercial motor vehicle:
any motor vehicle with a permanently attached truck or delivery body, including ambulances, hearses, casket wagons, fire apparatus, buses and tractors used for hauling loads.

Reads like you can tow double (well, maybe) if you buy an old hearse or ambulance (casket wagon), fire apparatus, even a bus -

Also found this:

Commercial Motor Vehicle
Definition of commercial motor vehicle, generally
1. For the purposes of every provision of the Act and the regulations, ÔÇ£commercial motor vehicleÔÇØ includes the following, even if it does not have a truck or delivery body attached to it:

1. A motor vehicle commonly known as a tow truck.

2. A mobile equipment vehicle.

3. A vehicle built on a truck chassis. O. Reg. 399/16, s. 2.


The question is can this be safely done with 2 ball hitch set-up. If not, my other option is a Tw' N One as I need the ability to separate

[K447]

- my other option is a Tw' N One as I need the ability to separate

Wait, all this was about wanting to tow two single PWC trailers end to end?

I have not used a two-in-one PWC trailer. Reports say that they do work but the pairing and unpairing can be something of a chore.

While paired it works as a mediocre double trailer. Rattles and harsh riding since the axles are narrower than a normal size single PWC trailer and the center tires are traveling down the 'hump' between the tire rust on the road.

[guybb3]

Gorgeous trailer you built there.

[Myself]

When we first started out we had 2 Yamahas each on their own trailer. I hauled them in tandem with no issues at all. Usually a few strange looks from other motorists. I had practiced backing up in my field.....you should have seen the looks at the boat launch when I'd start backing them up in tandem. Unload the rear one, then just keep backing until the rear trailer was completely under water and unload the front one. Good Times!!