2007 FX1100HO go BOOM! Fix or not?

[Moukie]

OK, it did not happen to me, but to previous, previous owner........little history....i bought a 2006 FX1000 that ran but looked awful, and a 2007 FX1100HO that PO shared had a locked motor, for a very nice price this Spring. PO fully disclosed that she had just bought them, and knew they both had saltwater use, and that the HO had a locked up motor. I had cash, i like projects; we both parted ways happily!
I spent a few weeks doing maintenance and cosmetics on the 2006 FX1000, and we used it all Summer. Ran like a top, and wife and kids love it and now hope to make it a companion.
I was able to get the motor unlocked on the 2007 FX1100HO with MMO and patience. But, knew right off the problem was deep when the #4 piston did not move, so pulled motor a few weeks ago and noticed a nice chunk missing from the block, and another fracture right above it. Thus begins a little description of myself:
I like toys; don't have a lot of money, but do have 56 years of tools and lots of energy and a strong desire to learn new things. I am an engineer by profession, so this is a challenge i hope to conquer. Sort of matches about every other asset i own; i buy challenges and learn about them while working on them. As i see it, i have $0 in this ski, so putting a "reasonable" amount of money in to get a nice ski is certainly an option.
Up front - the hour meter shows about 165 hours, and the majority of the salt damage i see is in all the broken constant-tension clamps that broke while i was removing them. Yes, all aluminum casings are pitted, but the insides look free of corrosion. I can clean and rattle-can if it bothers me.

I now have the engine down to the block. Cause analysis of the broken rod was very straightforward after finding one rod cap nut with stripped threads laying in the pan. Sounds like what many others have found; rod bolt nut came loose and all He$$ broke loose.

The good; or at least what i think is good after a basic visual inspection:
1) There was no sign of water intrusion on the top of the motor. The oil looked good, aside from a little milky in the pan, which i attribute to me washing the bay without knowing there was a hole in the block.
2) Head does not show obvious damage. Most or all of the valves on #4 are bent and not fully closing, but no other obvious damage to an untrained individual.
3) FWIW, 3 good cylinders. HaHa. Had to throw that in there.

The Bad, and maybe show stoppers:
1) One big hole, and one nice fracture right above the hole.
2) #4 sleeve is toast. Cylinder might could be honed and saved, but the bottom of the sleeve is broken off. Looks like it may be higher than bottom of piston travel. I will do some measuring.
3) Dog-gone crank is toast. The journal for the launched rod looks like it has been gouged with a torch. It clearly is shot. Which means total disassembly of the crank and whole block. I was hoping to maybe get by with much less work, but not today.
4) Obviously need rod, piston, etc.

I appreciate any and all thoughts on how to go about this. Username MYSELF shared a very helpful thread where he had a very similar failure and was able to fix it all. I will say my skill level is nowhere near his, but i do have resources available and i have been in an engine or two; though not one that runs 9-10K RPM. I have not assigned a budget to address this project but i will be very reasonable. The ski is a beautiful royal blue, and i would love to have it running, but i am a reasonable person. If it doesn't make sense, i will part it out or haul it to the dump and find another. That said, i will be much prouder to scoot around on a machine i built than on one i went to the dealer i bought. It's just who i am.

I will post some pics as soon as i figure out how. They may come later in a separate reply. For now, i appreciate all thoughts on how to approach. I also appreciate any DM on parts you may have, or services or contacts you may can share. I have checked out the SBT website, and it looks like they do not have any short or long blocks. I suspect their price will far exceed what i will put in this ski........if they have anything. As far as parts, i assume they are a good resource? True?

Now for the pictures, if i can figure that out.

Thanks in advance for any and all help and guidance.
David in SC

[Moukie]

OK, apologize for the mishap with the pics. Will try to do different this time. Pics below show where i am tonight. Block is stripped with exception of flywheel; does this need to come off to remove crank, or will it remain attached for removal later? Second pic shows the damage to the bottom of the sleeve and to the crank journal.

Is welding the best and only option if i am able to stay with this block? I see all of these 2-part products that tout super strength. I assume the hole i have sees relatively low stress, but not sure how much. Would hate to epoxy up and then begin to see leakage in the middle of the season.

Thanks again,
David in SC

[steve45]

I've done a bunch of rehabs and ended up losing money on most of them. I'd suggest trying to find a wrecked 'Ski that uses the same engine. You'll spend a fortune fixing that engine.

[Moukie]

Thanks for the advice Steve45. I suspect you are likely correct, and i certainly appreciate the words of wisdom. This thing is quickly becoming more of an intriguing challenge, so i may still pursue replacing some parts to see if i can make it run. The alternative is parting it out, and that is work, but not fun work. I see lots of parts on ebay, and it does not look they are fast-moving. Still may go that route; not sure.

I am certainly open to hearing if anyone has parts i need for sale.

For last night, i went a little deeper and probably should have followed the suggested process more closely. I split the case without removing the flywheel/magneto assembly. I believe there is a tool available to assist with this removal, but it requires the case assembled and the head on to freeze movement, i think. Is there a way to remove with the case split and the bottom half of the crank exposed? If not, i can reassemble; not a big deal. I just got to digging and got caught up in the hunt and was having fun.

I am also interested in people's thoughts on re-sleeving a cylinder on the MR-1. I hear of a local shop that will do it very reasonably. I am also reading up on crankshaft repair; though would much prefer to go with a known-good unit.

All advice is welcomed. This is my Winter project, and the intent is to have fun, learn, and maybe have a functioning machine come Spring.

Have a great day!
David in SC

[steve45]

Got a big vise? Put the crank in the vise and remove the bolt in the center. It may have LocTite on it, so if it doesn't come off fairly easily, try some heat on the bolt.

There should be some threaded holes to accept a puller. Put the center bolt in most of the way, then pull against it with the puller. You may have to tap on the puller bolt to break it loose.

[TimeBandit]

Been there - did that. Decide to scrap the MR1 HO for an OEM 1.8L NA instead. This is just "my" opinion - and I'm nobody. The MR1 HO platform, I feel was pushed too-much by Yamaha engineers. They attempted to squeeze every oz of HP out of that naturally aspirated R1 marine variant of an engine, and I feel they pushed it too far. The VAST majority of HOs that throw rods, seems to always be that #1 Cyl. (fun-fact: that engine is positioned backwards). So to rebuild/restore one - again, in my mind - is already a setup for failure. Notice that after just 4 years, Yamaha ditched the MR1 HOs for the 1.8L. Notice they kept the non-HO MR1s. There's a reason - just saying.

The "clone" market. The MR1 engine has been cloned years ago, using inferior non-OEM parts. Even the blocks. SBT is all about this concept. While their no-questions warranty might make you think they are confident in the quality and reliability of their reman'ed and cloned engines - the complete opposite is true. One you've gone thru the labor/time of a few repeated consecutive warranty replacements (all different degrees of catastrophic failures), you'll be quick to realise the said warranty is more a curse of forever engine replacements until it expires. Simply-put, their engines have one application - it's for the get-the-ski-running-to-make-a-quick-sale used ski flipper.
The other problem this clone market causes is OEM parts dilution. By now, there are are mixture of partial cloned remans, and full clones in the wild, so buying one of these 1st gen 4-stroke skis with an 100% OEM engine is getting more and more rare. Chances are, the other (running) ski might already have cloned parts.

[Moukie]

Great info TimeBandit; thank you for sharing. With the limited knowledge i have, i would tend to agree with everything you have stated. I will be on the lookout for a 1.8L; any leads? Sounds like a fairly straighforward swap based on your experience. I like the Ski i have, and would be interested in putting money in it to make it a reliable machine. In the meantime, i am just putting around with something to do after work......in the winter months. If i can gather up the parts i think i need, i may re-assemble it. If not, i may chunk it all or sell what i can.

I will add though that the failure mode of mine appears to be the nut backing off. I have not confirmed any serial numbers to see if my engine is original, and i think it has about 165 hours. Now why would a rod nut back off at that lifespan? Really a fairly minor failure, but with a catastrophic impact. Not like a broken rod, or crank, or such. Seems like verified torque, or loc-tite, or staking or something may could have prevented this. Who really knows. Any input to prevent in the future is much appreciated.

Thank you so much for your input. I will now do a search to see if i can find a 1.8L.

Have a nice evening,
David in SC

[TimeBandit]

Thank you, but hey, I wasn't trying to sell-you on a full conversion project ... just illustrating how much I don't like HO'ed MR1's, to the brink of driving me ultimately into a full 1.8L conversion path. No regrets. To-date, my 1.8L 2005 FX ski performs great - suits my needs.
That said, I'm thinking of bringing that 1.8 over to my SUV conversion, soon. I'm still doing hull work and mods on it.
Yeah, good-luck on finding a OEM 1.8. No seriously, you need luck. Damaged skis with perfectly good engines are unicorns!

[Moukie]

Good Monday afternoon! Thanks all for the feedback and support so far. Time for an update on where i am with what may be my Winter project to nowhere.

I have the block down to bare bones. The hole could be an issue, as it the impact appears to have smacked so hard that it micro-cracked all the way to the deck. A pic shows where i think is a crack. This definitely leaves out some miracle-cure epoxy. I will take to a seasoned tig welder, as i only have stick and arc machines. I want to believe if welded properly, this will only leave a potential for a sealing issue between the block halves, but am would love to hear thoughts. If faced with replacing the block, i will begin parting out what looks useable.
Reminder that i have essentially no money in this, and it is a good opportunity for me to learn. As a kid, i used to wait for the Sears catalog to arrive; not for the bras and panties, but so i could study the "real-life working" plastic rotary wankel engine. Never did get one! But, i have done minor engine work including sleeve, head, pistons, and more on my old Case diesel dozer. My challenge is keeping a very reasonable approach, and remembering this is an engine that will want to run at about 4X the RPM of that old diesel Case.
I have also been toying with my crank. The #4 rod journal (#1 as i have been corrected, but closest to PTO) is toast. I called a local crank shop and they said my ONLY option was a place in Orange, California. I called, and they will repair it, for a not-so-bad price. I just question if this is the correct route to take, or if i should search for a good used one. I almost believe a rebuild by the Calif outfit is less risky than a used one? Thoughts are welcomed.

As for other things that are likely smart to do, here are some thoughts:
1) Head. I have removed all 5 valves, and all are bent. I do not see any head damage, though i know special tools are needed to fully assess. I am not really interested in having that done. Likely will purchase valves and use what i have. I understand that is risky.
2) Sleeves. The #4 has a small chunk missing at the bottom. I will verify, but i dont believe the ring grooves get anywhere close to the missing chunk. I have to study more, but is a small missing chunk critical if below the rings? As for other damage, i only see a little oxidation, so hopefully will clean up, hone, and purchase one new piston and rod and a complete set of rings. I did use a crude way to measure roundness and do not visually (FWIW) see issues.
3) Rod journal bearings. I think 1-3 are green and all look very good. #4 is nowhere in sight except for maybe in specs.
4) Main bearings. Ah a clue? 1st 3 are blue, and 4 and 5 are black. I think i have that right. I know the 2 on either side of #4 cylinder are black and the others are blue. All 5 look like new to me. Why would the 2 on either side of the failure be a different clearance? Does this mean this engine has been gone through before?


All advice is on the table here. Again, i am having a ball, and just trying to learn and not break the bank. With my skill level, i may spend a lot and it still chunk a rod when i crank it. If it does, so be it. We only put about 8 hours on our perfectly running machine this Summer anyhow..

Thank you kindly for advice. If anyone has known-good parts for sale, please PM me.
David in SC

[Moukie]

Hello to All! Not making too much progress on this project, but may have leads on a new-ish engine. Before i get into that, i am still trying to understand what went wrong with this one, and what can be done to prevent future failures. I have done a good bit of reading, and have some questions.

1) I may have incorrectly stated the root cause of my rod launch being a rod nut that backed off. I am certain the nut backed off, but why did it back off? I found zero evidence of a rod bearing in the pan or other areas of the block. Sort of reading between the lines in other posts; is it possible the rod bearing failed and caused a gap between rod and cap that allowed the nut to back off? I have stated the 2 mains around the failed rod had a different color bearing; making me suspect this engine has been opened before, but i cant confirm that. My question is mainly around understanding the root cause, and wondering if these engines are particularly hard on rod bearings? I have a 2006 FX, and i am wondering if i should remove the pan and check the rod bearings? Any advice is appreciated, as i want to keep it operating in top shape for years to come.
2) Second question is around the crack in the block external of the water jacket that surrounds the sleeves. I have drawn in red pen about where mine is in the picture. I am wondering what causes this crack, and how significant is it? I have read about others having it, and some even filling it with JB Weld to seal it. As best i can tell, it could only leak externally; is that correct? After finding this, i ran even more antifreeze through my FX1000 in advance of this weeks temperatures. Is this a freeze crack or other?

Thanks again for all of the advice. I am still on the hunt for parts or even a replacement engine.

DAvid in SC

[Moukie]

Good morning, and Happy Holidays!
I have found another engine, and am tearing into it to understand why the cylinders had 110-110-75-100 psi compression. Yes, the 75 came inline when oil was added. Since this engine does not have any obvious catastrophic damage, i am proceeding with a rebuild.
Can anyone recommend what rebuild kit would be the best option? Looks like SBT and WSM offer similar options, but wonder if anyone can offer advice as to other options, or which may be better?

Thanks and Happy Holidays!
David in SC