2-Stroke ***2017 Updates/Consensus/Inquiries/Best Suggestion***

[GP123]

Hi guys, i'm new here and was thinking about purchasing a gp. I was looking at aftermarket parts, specifically an exhaust system, but couldn't find anything. I was also looking for very good holeshot. Any help/advice is appreciated. Thank you!

Intro:

It's 2017 or later, your looking for a new project to work on, let me tell you this a 2-stroke jet ski is not the answer to your problems.... if your new to projects and builds keep it simple and stick to 4-stroke engines, there is a reason the industry(ies) have gone this route. Mainly due to reliability and engine lifespan/longevity.

Don't bite the 2-stroke GP1200/1300R "Cheap Build Idea" bullet ........... when the modern 4-Stroke 2017+ GP revolution is among us.


Short Version:

It will take you more time and money and sacrificing engine lifespan and reliability to build an older 2-stroke jet ski just to barely keep up with newer 4-stroke forced induction jet skies in straight line speed and acceleration..... recommendation is to put a down payment and to buy a brand new GP1800R leave it stock or map tuner x (upgrade ECU) and impeller pitch/boltons and call it a day.

Stock supercharged Yamaha jet skis with Tunes go 76+mph. The tuning softwares out there like "map tuner X" are a great bargain for the price($965 current retail). It would take someone a fully built GP1300R 2-stroke with about ~$5,000 in parts or more to get to that Stock Supercharged 4-stroke speed.


Hardships/Roadblocks/10 months of reading-note taking/experience in my own 2-stroke Jet ski build:

D.I.Y. (Do it yourself) Building a Project jet ski costs a lot of time/ money / reading. I made that mistake a year ago (Feb.2016 & project still in pieces Jan. 2017), I thought it would be quick and easy and it's not life gets in the way and there just isn't that much free time in the day to get to it on your own, I said it would take me "3 months tops" by myself..... thats the slippery slope I fell into. If you decide your hell bent and a slight masochist and set on purchasing one make sure it's 2005 and Newer to avoid recalls or buy one of someone who has done all the work preferably a member on here GH Classifieds and has pictures and leave it COMPLETELY stock or do oil block off and plan to sell it sooner than later.


The slippery slope:

Adding parts and upgrading stuff is a complete MIND F**K, cause you buy parts you think will make you faster and then when they don't (in the case of the 2-stroke) you end up having to buy every hull part, list part to avoid recall, so that all the parts work together in unison and these 2- strokes jet skies have to be very well built/engine/impeller pitch/all sorts of knit- picky- tuning/maintenance and then hull truing/tuning, the 2-stroke engines consume more fuel and oil and wear down faster the more power you throw at them..... It's a nightmare.....

Carb'd 2-Stroke anything can be a nightmare even worse when it's a watercraft or sees the sea/saltwater cause they get dirty/rust or the fuel gets dirty or has poor fuel quality performance issues and then it runs like sh!T, they need to be saltwater flushed always, STOCK and brand new and 4- stroke and being a little newb-ish to jet ski scene is just an easier and a safer bet.

You WILL SAVE A Lot of time money and save a lot of 2- stroke headaches/problems/nightmares, 9 times out of 10 these older Skies have bad resale value and are a bad investment in comparison to the 4-stroke counterparts (although there are always those rare exceptions).


Hindsight is 20/20:

I wish someone with a conscious or me from the future would have came in an explained and said to me save your time and effort and go the Forced Induction 4- stroke route. It's sad that you only learn through experience and this is an experience you don't want to go through. (Wasted time an money, when I could have applied for a loan and been riding all this time.)

Take it from me it's a bad investment and a waste of your time/effort to learn and reapply all these outdated principles/upgrades/preventative measures. You can double or triple your speed gains with a Forced Induction 4- stroke with way less effort, even a stock one will destroy an old school 2- stroke jet ski in delivery of power and efficiency.

Even think about a non turbo/supercharged 4-stroke on Nitrous before taking on a 2-stroke endeavor.


Prices can be deceiving:

Getting a cheap 2-stroke jet ski project build in 2017 sounds like a good idea and investment at first cause of the initial cost and how attractive the prices sound but in the long run your basically shooting yourself in the foot so-to-speak and just pedaling backwards. I'd say 100% of 2-stroke jet ski owners face some sort of break down or the like and end up losing interest at some point and being aware of that and paying attention to the cost of riding and maintaining one of these and paying attention your your own level of interest and involvement are key factors in your longevity in the 2-stroke build. The more these things sit the more problems will arise down the road maintenance and exercise are vital to the 2-strokes life.


Time consuming and extensive hobby/craft:

Takes many hours of goal formulating, reading, note taking, manual labor or funds to complete 2-stroke and mostly any jet ski or project build... it's crazy how just adding an exhaust won't simply make you go faster and how so much more tuning, knowledge, and skill is needed to optimize the full potential of all the modifications you put into a 2-stroke jet ski project.

****Unless you plan on building a little old school stand up trick ski that you can lay on a small bench workshop table and are essentially retired and a jet ski connoisseur with a lot of free time and money on your hands, I would run far away from any standup/sit down 2- stroke jet ski get that same money/credit card and put it as a down payment on a brand new 4- stroke supercharged Yamaha FZR or GP1800.****


PARTs availability *OUTdated:

Most and if not all jet ski 2-stroke parts from manufactures like Riva and R&D are discontinued, example of this is: I've called RIVA about one of their parts the 2 stroke "Dominator Manifold" to learn more details about if it would work with my EFI 2-stroke build and the guy didn't know what I was talking about, he didn't even know they had ever made that part , they later contacted one of the "older mechanics" and they said they are sold out and discontinued. Most parts you find online are left over new-old stock.


Buyer-Seller-Performance Parts Market /Unicorn Builders:

Eventually, it will come to a point where you have to either buy a fully built 2-stroke Jet ski from someone reputable on this site if you want something faster than stock, or if you need a parts jet ski to take off parts for your 2-stroke build, (I think it's better this way) and it would be more cost effective to the buyer and seller (and 2-stroke jet ski builders) that use these products. There are only a handful of elite 2-stroke builders on this planet your are lucky and blessed to have contact with a few on this GH website.


Anecdotal Information on 2-Stroke speed and performance gains:

Sure, you can try to copy other peoples mods and still MIGHT not get the same results in speed and acceleration they did, because there are many other variables in temperature, water conditions, elevation, rider weight, etc. that they may have had that YOU will most probably have differently.

2-Strokes are older technology and don't last as long as 4-strokes....... Many 2-stroke purists may argue that notion but check out this article and google yourself others if necessary http://www.deepscience.com/articles/engines.html

https://youtu.be/lUrDgY_pj08

What about the 2- Stroke Speed Database?

Sure people claim to have made 89+mph for someone's personal best record.... but how long will that 2-stroke engine really last how much fuel is it wasting, and how efficient, and practical is the jet ski in overall use, can you jump waves in it, how does it accelerate to such speed?


Upgrades to Gains ratio is low:

2- stroke tuning can be cumbersome and you need expensive upgraded rare carbs (Used +$300 Makuni) to run Triples Pipes (Used +$500) and need to be in the high +7500 rpm range for them to work correctly along with a huge list including engine and hull modifications to be past the 75mph range and with just those two major modifications its already more then what the jet ski shell hull is worth in the resale market now in 2017. With just $965 Map Tuner X, which you could easily spend on a set of Triple Pipes or Upgraded Carbs alone you can buy a Tuner for a supercharged 4-stroke.


Not for everyone:

Even renting a supercharged jet ski would be more cost effective in time and money for most people. Some people buy jet skies and leave them sitting cause they get bored or have no one to ride with, but in the 2- stroke case they are worse because of break downs or failures or poor maintenance/maintenance habits-requirements and finicky to bad fluid quality.


My Regards:

It's crazy how an open ended question about how to find and add an exhaust and adding more whole shot performance from being interested in buying a GP1200/1300R in 2016-2017 can turn into a full blown article/sticky/writeup.

The best thing about this type of build or any build for that matter, is that you learn the ski inside and out and know every and all bolts and how to diagnose problems that may or not be reoccurring.

Good luck, I hope this helped, I hope you make the right decision, and I am here if you have any questions. Best bet is to save $4,000 or credit card, put 3,000 down for loan on Yamaha GP1800 or other supercharged/turbo 4-stroke jet ski and get a tuner and impeller/boltons and you can be in the +75's stock with tune to mid 80's MPH+ with more boltons which is more than enough for any beginner (you can fall off and die type of speeds).... they have crazy acceleration that I urge you to try even by local dealer test rides.

[spaceman]

GP123, you need to remember you purchased a seized/non running ski with about everything broken. You hemorrhaged money by needing to replacing things like the entire jetpump, engine, rideplate and pump brackets, etc.

If you had spent an extra us$500-1000 on a working 05+ in good condition, you would only require an impeller, 4deg timing key, efi, modded rideplate, air filter/arrester, jetworks kit, d-plate, reeds (stuffer + pettals or vf3) and a raised compression head.

Again what and if you mod is up to you. Unfortunately you are forced to either mod/repair or replace to get it working.

If you had purchased a non running FZR/RXPX you would still be in the same situation.

Rather concentrate on getting your ski working and ride it, then mod it or trade it in on another ski. One could keep it as a beater for your friends/family to use.

[spaceman]

As per another thread, different experience

I'll preface this by saying that I've sold my GP1300r and purchased a GP1800, but even though that's the case, I have nothing but extraordinary memories of my GP1300r....quite a different experience than GP

You can purchase one of these running and in excellent condition for a mere fraction of its original cost, or about 18% of the cost of a new GP1800.

I purchased mine for $3,000 with 62 hours on the clock, only performed mild reliability mods, and was hitting 68-69 MPH regularly on GPS.

2 years later I had 124 hours on it when my 3rd cylinder went "kaboom". Can't even blame the ski - I made the mistake of letting a friend ride it and she got lodged in seaweed, kept the throttle applied 100%, and overheated it.

I have moderate mechanical ability at best, and the simplicity of these 2-stroke motors afforded me the ability to tear it down myself, diagnose the problem, and replace the cylinder, piston, and rings without the cost of a mechanic. Total cost of my repair was under $350 and it took me only a couple of hours.

Within the span of one weekend I was back on the water again enjoying the playful nature of the GP1300r (mind you I already owned a 2013 VXR as this point - but I preferred the GP1300r)

I just sold it this October for $3,500. If I add in the cost of my engine rebuild, I still profited $150 owning my GP1300r and had two incredible years with it. I even made sure to make friends with the buyer so I can have an opportunity to ride it in the future...I loved it that much.

There's more to a ski than its speed, and the older GPs had so many endearing characteristics that it will always be a cult favorite. Selling mine was one of the most difficult decisions I ever made.

In fact, don't be surprised if you see me stalking the forums in the next year or two looking to pick another one up just as a "fun to ride" ski.

[Adam]

I understand where you are coming from but , there are many GPR1200/1300 out there that run 70 plus mph and are reliable at far less cost ( purchase wise ) .
Some like the challenge of getting the most out of the least amount of money, so there will be those who enjoy the two strokes. Eventually I will go Supercharged Yamaha but in the mean time my GPR gives fits to guys who thought they have the fastest ski on the water .

[mikolo]

Well all those points seem valid, but I have restored 3 of these 2 strokes, well 2 1/2. not quite finished with my xlt1200. I have had more fun with my 14 year old son fixing up his birthday present. a 2003 GP1300r. Was it cost effective? Probably not. but the time spent and his excitement is priceless. I am not a mechanic just a weekend warrior that has Greenhulk as my reference, guide, and so much more. I don't believe I could have done this on a 4 stroke. I also don't think we would have the pride in our machines if we didn't make them from the ground up. I'll have to post a picture of him buffing and waxing it. He wants to wash it after every ride. I know if I just got him a 4 stroke it would be abused. not sure what this is worth but thanks to everyone for all the help.

[singlesupra]

Why is this a sticky?
The OP woukd feel the same had he bought a used up and abused 4 stroke and had to do thr same amount of work.
2 strokes can be reliable, same as anything it's how it's taken care of it. Is a neglected 4 stroke more reliable? Maybe BUT it too will break and once it's broken, better be prepared to reach deep.

Too many Chase a top speed, makes no sense. I guess one of the few who doesn't run mine wide open for hours on end

[butterbean_29512]

How in the world is this a sticky??????? Sounds like he bought a piece of crap, didn't understand how to fix it properly, and threw money at it. Sounds like he is a little disgruntled over his ownership experience. And certainly, as I am sure he will find out, a 4 stroke is much more expensive to mod than a 2 stroke. If he would have done his research here and on other forums, his 2 stroke ownership experience would have been much more enjoyable. I have nothing but love for my 2 strokes, and I find them to be highly reliable. Hopefully he is satisfied with his 4 stroke experience.

[GP123]

How in the world is this a sticky??????? Sounds like he bought a piece of crap, didn't understand how to fix it properly, and threw money at it. Sounds like he is a little disgruntled over his ownership experience. And certainly, as I am sure he will find out, a 4 stroke is much more expensive to mod than a 2 stroke. If he would have done his research here and on other forums, his 2 stroke ownership experience would have been much more enjoyable. I have nothing but love for my 2 strokes, and I find them to be highly reliable. Hopefully he is satisfied with his 4 stroke experience.

Cause I am trying to bring awareness to the younger generation of Jet Ski Riders and the project newbs.

Your wrong I still own this jet ski and I am working on it, had I done further research I would have made a down payment on a Supercharged Yamaha FZR or GP1800R. Newer Yamaha FZR and GP1800R are the better option hands down and other long term members have agreed on that notion. They cost more in the beginning and in the long run you save more money where as the Older 2 stroke jet ski have lost A lot of real market value due to age and lack of technology and aftermarket backing.

[CrazyA]

Wait until the day comes (if ever) that you have to make a somewhat extensive repair on a four stroke ski that isn't covered under warranty. You'll know what true financial hemorrhaging is!!!

[spaceman]

For me rebuilding a 2 stroke is doable both financially and mechanically.

Repairing a 4stroke which ate it's charger and spat the engine internals out the exhaust ... well seen too many of those locally... lots of mint 4stroke hulls at the various dealers without engines.

[spaceman]

2-Stroke (Projects/Budget- Build Ideas/Inquiries) ***2017 Updates/Consensus***

One thing to note, you could essentially purchase 4 mint condition gp1300r's for the price of a new gp1800.

But I wouldn't buy a 1300r with the intent of making it a 80+mph ski..

A nice mid 70 ski with a few mods like rideplate, impeller, air intake, raising compression ,timing, jetworks and reeds.

[GP123]

@CrazyA @Spaceman ..... guys you are different cause you know how these skies work inside and out I am talking about the jet ski project newbs or people trying to purchase a "mint condition" GP1300R

There is a higher ratio of people asking how to fix their broken 2 stroke jet ski and asking why their 2 stroke jet ski doesn't go fast yet they have multiple aftermarket parts installed to people posting success and longevity.

This is more for the general public that are just getting started.

Most people starting out purchase Jetskis for driving recreationally and for fun not to become a technician and not to spend countless hours trying to diagnose or dump money into older 2 stroke jet ski's that are prone to have problems.

I am not comparing the amounts of money the jet skis cost because the prices for the jetskis vary in different regions, but the clear better option for tuning and long run market value are the newer 4 stroke supercharged options that have full standalone engine management kits to fine to and fail safe the engine from destruction.... something that cannot be had in the GP1300R and older 2 stroke jet skis.

If a newb is gonna dump money or have a side project they should do it in a newer 4 stroke supercharged so when they add the ricer BOV and it starts to make supercharger noises they feel like they are doing something instead of coming on here asking how they can improve their exhaust and make there ski faster.

That's why I believe it's vital and why this thread is a helpful resource for those individuals.

[butterbean_29512]

GP....the problem with the post is that its just an opinion piece. Opinions are very subjective. You will know what expensive is once that 4 stroke needs some work. This community is one that has always been willing to do its research and learn. We tuners have taken great skis and perfected them through hard work and research, and a willingness to help each other by sharing info. I started this journey by buying a 97 WR3 for 700 bucks. Fast forward to now....I have bought and sold 7 skis, each one a project in its own right. The one I plan on keeping is my 00 GPR. Its been super reliable, has never broken down on me, and now I have rebuilt the engine and hopefully will get another 300 hours out of it. This is a YMMV hobby. You just don't bolt a set of triple pipes to a stock ski and expect to go 80 mph. Every time I ride my GPR I smile when I pull the throttle and she roars up on plane. The smile comes from the satisfaction of knowing that my hard work and research have led to many trouble free hours of riding. Don't take it the wrong way....but HOW DARE YOU TRY TO TALK SOMEONE OUT OF RECEIVING THE SAME SATISFACTION!!!!!!!!!!! OK....rant over. Now, either fix your GPR, or sell it and get an 1800!

[hammer5312]

There are pros & cons to two strokes, there are just as many benefits and detractors to four strokes. I have a Yamaha SUV. I cannot for the life of me imagine owning any other ski. Yes she's my first and as such she will always be special. However, she is rated for four people. All others are rated for three. So that means "legally" I can pull my dau and two of her friends on my 3P towable. You can't do that with any other "ski".
Now if I upgrade to Seadoo challenger or sugar sand or some other jet boat its a moot point. I will have then upgraded from a "ski" to a jet "boat".
So back to my dilemma, I want my large SUV ski, with a ton of capacity. I want the stable platform, I'm a big guy (6' 245 lbs.) and I can stand on the edge of the gunwale and not worry about the ski tipping over or rolling over. I can launch her by myself, I can retrieve her by myself. She is fast enough for the size of lake I'm on. I can pull any of the following: wake boarder, skier, 2P or 3P towable.

I want reliability, I need to be able to put her in the water and fire be able her up every time. Fuel conservation not really important. More power would be nice, I really wish she had 200-225 horsepower. Doesn't need to really go faster, just a little more power to make her quicker out of the hole.
A four stroke would be quieter, which would be nice. Plus the four stroke would shake less.
Do I want one of the new Four strokes?? SURE, but not at the sacrifice of what I have. Have I thought about selling it and getting real ski boat? Yes, but when I'm by myself or with the wife, it like riding a motorcycle, and I can't replace that.

[kmaher]

Figure I'll chime in here since my experience with the GP1300r was quoted earlier in the thread...

I've owned my GP1800 since late November and it's only been on the lake twice with my pleasant Ohio winter weather. I have a whopping 2.7 hours on the clock.

Now, I'll admit it's blisteringly fast (Literally - I developed a blister from excessive full-throttle runs), and the handling is vomit-inducing, assuming you can hang on. Would my GP1300r stand a chance next to it? Not at all.

With all that said, why am I in the 2-Stroke performance section? For all the amazing times I've already had and am sure I will continue to have with the new toy, I miss the character of my GP1300r. The hull simply can't be beaten and I miss how flickable the ski was at any speed. My GP1800 respectfully obeys every command I throw at it like a well-trained soldier, but my GP1300r was a partner in crime, its 2-stroke exhaust maniacally laughing as we created plumes of chaos across the lake.

I'm here shopping for a new (to me) GP1300r. No, it won't be my primary ski anymore, but when I go to the lake to play by myself, it'll be my trusty sidekick.

I'd offer to buy yours GP, but it sounds like you just found a particularly well-beaten machine. As a result, I don't blame you for your views, but it really is an anomaly. It's been one of those things where you've been in over your head since you picked it up. Same thing happened to me when I bought a used Honda 400ex from craigslist. That quad has just never been right, but it's just this particular one, not the model as a whole.

I really wish this wasn't a sticky because it could deter new folks to the sport from buying what would be an amazing machine for them. I even miss the SMELL of my 2-stroke in all of its polluting glory. Your personal experience (although unpleasant) doesn't embody what owning a 2-stroke is like at all...

Now back to shopping for my GP1300r