Thanks obama and GM ...

[lextoy]

when taxes were higher, businsess still flourished, as they have been lowered over the last decade and longer, business hasnt gotten any stronger, in fact it has gotten weaker, and screwed the worker even harder. all so the owners could pocket more money.
tell me why the last 10 yrs of bush tax cuts havent worked ???? now that they are expiring you ask for more tax cuts ??? based on what ? its just the rich people screaming cuz they are losing a nice fat tax bonus they should never have gotten in the first place, the rest of us never benefited from it did we?
so let taxes reset to where they were 10 yrs ago, and get over it, lower taxs are no better at promoting business growth than high taxes.
in the meantime workers and middle class just got screwed for 10 yrs.
i really want to know what the last 10 yrs of tax cuts got us... near financial meltdown seems to be about it. and destruction of the middle class. anything positive for america? oh wait thats right, millionaires and billionares did very well over the last 10 yrs, and corporations are fatter than ever, not hiring and not spending, but sitting on mountains of cash. either hire some goddam workers or face some real taxes. 75 % sounds good for anyone or any company that turns a profit while laying off employees that year. either we all prosper from the economic good fortune or no one prosepers, the disconnect btw the workers success and companies success is not going to cut it for much longer. if it does we will be a 3rd world country, 2 tier, the poor and the ultra rich.
the rich of course dont really care if that happens as long as they get to keep their money. obama 2012, at least he's not catering to the 1% !!!!!!!

[Mark]

This guy's messin with us.

[troy boy]

beats all i ever slept with !!!!!!

[YoYamma]

What was wrong with the auto bailout? What is wrong with unions?

I'm not against all private sector unions, some of them have done some good things.
Public sector unions are another matter entirely; tax payers simply can't support what many of them are demanding in many cases. We saw what happened to GM; as that happens to America, who's going to bail us out? Nobody, so keep your guns ready. Austerity measures are already hitting many U.S. cities and states (see California, see Illinois, see Wisconsin, etc.) and people are going to get angry when their entitlements dry up (see Greece, see Spain).

You asked what's wrong with unions. Some of the monster unions like SEIU are becoming open pathways to Socialism for our country and some of the really big unions are corrupt to the core and actually marching with Communists openly in the streets! Obama is deeply tied to Big Labor, attached at the hip really. I'm looking beyond elections; at this point I'm focused on our survival as a free nation. If you don't believe how far our labor and our nation has fallen into the the hands of the Progressive/Socialist block, just take a long hard look at the photos in this link, taken during the May Day Parade in LA last year; click on this link and scroll down thru the photos and read the signs...

SEIU drops mask, goes full commie

http://pjmedia.com/zombie/2011/05/06/seiu-drops-mask-goes-full-commie/

[mjh3ides]

What was wrong with the auto bailout?

The fact that it was a gift to a large political donor(UAW) for one. The fact that they basically threw US contract law out the window & STOLE from GM's bond holders. They took a horribly mismanaged company & rewarded them for failure without bringing in new management, like what would have happened under a managed bankruptcy. Then put gov't bureaucrats in the driver's seat who forced GM into the epic fail that's called the Chevy Volt. And what did we get for our "investment"? We got a huge loss in the value of our(the US taxpayer's) shares, a company that's still not competitive, still losing market share & likely to need yet another bailout in the near future. What was RIGHT with the GM bailout?

What is wrong with unions?

Nothing, in the private sector. Even the biggest "progressive" president of the 20th century, FDR, strongly believed that public sector unions were a conflict to public interests.

Did you know that there are only a few folks these days that are working that have a defined benefit pension anymore?

If there were only a few folks with defined benefit pensions, we wouldn't have so many municipalities going broke left & right. Are you suggesting we force private sector companies into the same debacle that has driven so many cities & states into bankruptcy? Do you think it's better to guarantee retirement benefits instead of asking workers to take personal responsibility in saving for their own retirement? How is it fair that public sector workers get defined benefit retirements payed for on the taxpayer's dime, while those of us in the private sector have plans based on how much we contribute? Even Social Security is a defined contribution plan. The ONLY people who I would support having defined benefit plans, unless a company decides to do it on their own, are those who served in the military.

Did you know that since unions have declined in membership and there are very few far between that the middle class has taken a huge hit.

Do you have any data to support this?

Can you set aside your partisan look through the looking glass of limited goverment, low taxes, like all companies will do the right thing by their workers and take care of folks pure unadultrated bs and let the facts speak for themselves.

You either believe in free market capitalism, or you don't. There's nothing partisan about it. Of course all companies won't do the right thing for their workers, but no one is holding a gun to your head & making you work for them. Skilled employees are an asset just like buildings & equipment. If a company wants to stay competitive, they have to offer high enough salaries & benefits to attract & keep quality employees. We don't need to require employers to offer health care & retirement benefits because the competition for good people will accomplish that without gov't regulation. It's when you have gov't intervention in the marketplace that leads to workers being undercompensated & abused, because allowing politicians to pick winners & do favors for their friends removes competition from free markets.

Do you guys really think privitization of SS, 401K's,etc. are a good idea? Vs. what the folks that are currently retired have? The conversation should not be what it is.

Short answer on SS...maybe. At minimum, we should look at some sort of means testing for those collecting benefits. 401K's are a private retirement account BTW.

In order for there to be real and good change, it must start in Washington.

1. Term limits. Hard ones. 8 years, or 2 terms ONLY PERIOD. No run for house 8 years run for senate 8 years run for fed dog catcher 8 years etc. etc. Unless you run for prez or vp. Those are the only 2 exceptions. Period. These career pols got to go. They have dug us into this hole. They will never dig us out.
2. No more pensions for these guys. You serve your 4-8. The citizens contribute (our tax money = our money) to your 401K at a reasonable rate, just like in the private sector. Nothing more, nothing less.
3. No more health care forever. You get it while you serve. You pay 20% towards your coverage like most of us do. When you leave, you go get a job and get your own. Period. What? These guys think their in a union?
4. They fly coach. If they want an upgrade to first class they pay. Their budgets get taken down to real world standards and they get one flight per month on our dime at coach rates. Period. Except the Prez and V.Prez.
5. Public funding for campaigns. There would need to be a per capita $ amount based on the population and no more accounts that are used for payola and family slush fund, travel, etc. And if no public funding, then no more accounts hung on to for what ever. Campaign is over, money goes into general fund. But to take the BS out of campaigns and elections and the corporate and other influence, take the $ out of the equation. Make them get elected based on their priinciples, their views, their stand on issues, and their ability to take the same amount as the other guy and win. Because they are trully the better candidate and people believe in them. There is a way to do this fairly, and there are ways to whittle the field down to X number of candidates for each district, etc, etc. This goes against many of our sensabilities and conventions on this issue, but we have to reign this system in somehow.
6. They must abide and live under the same laws as the rest of us. Period. No exceptions.
We have to change this culture of entitlement at the top. If we don't we will never change this bs culture that we have allowed to happen in D.C.

All of this I agree with. Although I'd say maybe 3 terms combined between the House & Senate, because I think there is something to be said for experience.

[rlovebk]

All of this I agree with. Although I'd say maybe 3 terms combined between the House & Senate, because I think there is something to be said for experience.

Yeah, I'll say. Experience is what got us here. I have heard this for a while now. And if today is what we reap from these guys experience, then we do not need it.

As for public sector unions, they are not representative of what most unions were and what their use was. They are about the only ones left so the differences are glaring.

Since the 1980's there has been a huge change in the share of the $$ in this country that are now held by very few and not by a larger chunk of the middle class. I will do the research later if you want but that is a known fact and is supported by data and it parallels the fall of the private sector unions. In fact it has turned something like 70% (all) 30% (rich) to 70% (rich) 30% (all) something along those numbers, that includes all the $$ that lextoy describes above.

As far as pensions go, my father has been in the banking business for 50+ years. He retired from a bank in Arizona. They gave him a retirement (pension) for his 30 years of service. This was a private, non union pension. It was a similar program to what most companies offered back then. Instead of outsized CEO pay, pie - in - the - sky stock options, and the "Creating Value" bs buzzwords we hear these days, companies took care of their employees. The 401K was meant to be a suplemental plan for people to put away more for retirement. And it is a good example of what would/could have happened to SS if it were privatized. And wonder why CEO's and their ilk were wanting that?
Means testing I agree 100% with. And same with unemployment after reports today of 1200+ millionaires collecting unemployment benefits.

In fact read lextoys comments and he is right on. Only I'd take it a step farther and roll it back to Reagan era taxes. He cut the rate too much. And did you know under the Obama admin unemployment has dropped 2 points which is a higher percentage than it dropped during 8 years of Reagan? I am not an Obama fan. I do not think he has done that good of a job. But facts are facts.

[YoYamma]

rlovebk; no comment on the photos of the Commies and the SEIU marching together?

You talk about facts; did you read their signs or just choose to ignore the obvious?

What jackazzes like Lex are doing is they are preaching anti-capitalism and trying to turn American business into the enemy. This is the kind of crap that socialist professors have been pumping into our college students and it's creating a generation of socialists.

Here's an up close and personal look at the Occupy protestors in Denver a few months ago;
when you look past the hippies, dope heads and associated losers, you will find a hard-left Communist core deeply involved in an orchestrated attempt to intimidate law enforcement, incite violence and restructure America at the heart of this movement.

And I encourage all of you to visit the link below and see the many other photos (notice the material for the Leading Light Communist Organization at this event; PLEASE read the captions, they are a real eye opener for anyone who still doubts what is happening with our populace...

Anti-Capitalist Revolution in Denver

http://www.lookingattheleft.com/2011/10/evil-clowns-and-anti-capitalist-revolution-in-denver/

[airbornexp]

Hey guys this just in....caterpillar is laying off hundreds in the next three months in Illinois....happy thanksgiving and merry Christmas liberals. You have just about killed Illinois. Example of liberalism and public unions out of control.

[Vikesfan]

rlovebk; no comment on the photos of the Commies and the SEIU marching together?

You talk about facts; did you read their signs or just choose to ignore the obvious?

What jackazzes like Lex are doing is they are preaching anti-capitalism and trying to turn American business into the enemy. This is the kind of crap that socialist professors have been pumping into our college students and it's creating a generation of socialists.

Here's an up close and personal look at the Occupy protestors in Denver a few months ago;
when you look past the hippies, dope heads and associated losers, you will find a hard-left Communist core deeply involved in an orchestrated attempt to intimidate law enforcement, incite violence and restructure America at the heart of this movement.

And I encourage all of you to visit the link below and see the many other photos (notice the material for the Leading Light Communist Organization at this event; PLEASE read the captions, they are a real eye opener for anyone who still doubts what is happening with our populace...

I am so tired of the ignorance in your posts. (not that you are stupid, ignorance just means lack the information or knowledge) Do you even know what Socialism is? Based on your links and what you describe as Socialism and Communism you clearly do not. And by the way, back in college I learned about Socialism and other political ideologies from my Libertarian, far Right Leaning, Tea Party supporting International Politics professor. You really need to educate yourself a little before you speak so loudly about something you clearly don't know anything about. You may want to do a little reading so I posted a little reading material for you so that you can become a little better informed about what Socialism is and isn't. If you don't want to read all of it I will just summarize my favorite paragraph from the links below.

“Socialism” is not a synonym for “stuff Republicans don’t like.”

Aside from Obama’s advances on gay rights and reproductive rights, there’s just not much in this White House’s agenda that moderate Republicans wouldn’t have found tolerable a decade or two ago. The Affordable Care Act largely relies on private insurers, rather than socialized medicine. Cap and trade was a Republican idea. Keynesian stimulus has been the basis for U.S. economic policy for both parties for eight decades. Investments in infrastructure and education have traditionally been bipartisan priorities.

Go ahead and prove me wrong and show that you actually know what Socialism is without quoting rhetoric from some right wing web site. Explain to me specifically what policies or programs are leading this country towards Socialism? “Welfare” or “entitlements” for the poor and sick and needy? Not socialist. Fire departments, cops, EMTs, public roads? Not socialist. Voter education efforts, public research funding, public television and radio? Not socialist. Subsidizing agriculture or industry, “bailouts” in times of trouble, even? Nope, not socialist. Emergency disaster funding and management? Not socialist. Public schools? Not socialist. State protection of banks and financial infrastructure? Not socialist. State prisons? Not socialist.

And regarding those pictures you posted, do you realize that there are actual Socialist and Communist political parties in the United States? Those people are not Democrats or Independents, they are Socialists and Communists and they are a very small percentage of our population. They will also get very upset if you try to lump them in with Obama and the Democratic party because they believe in something very different.

http://www.modernagerevolution.com/?p=120

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jan/08/rick-perry/rick-perry-says-barack-obama-socialist/

http://www.businessweek.com/politics-policy/joshua-green-on-politics/archives/2012/02/why_its_dumb_to_call_obama_a_socialist.html

http://www.slp.org/res_state_htm/socialism_m_p.html

http://www.awesomedome.com/?p=224

[YoYamma]

I am so tired of the ignorance in your posts.

I'm so tired of the bull crap in yours. Does that make us even?

"the Democratic party is the only one that is remotely moderate."

^^^ I believe you actually made that ridiculous post, didn't you?
You might not be as as smart as you think you are sport; either way, I think your just another liberal poser and fence sitter, voting for the Kenyan Socialist and pretending to be an "independent thinker." Anybody who votes for Obama is a liberal at their core in my book. Not that I really care, but it is what it is. I don't where you got the idea that I said every public sector worker like Firemen and cops were socialist; please don't put words in my mouth. But one thing is true; there ARE socialists and worse in our government right now, this country is a mess, and at the end of the day, I don't give a rats azz what you're tired of.

And regarding those pictures you posted, do you realize that there are actual Socialist and Communist political parties in the United States? Those people are not Democrats or Independents, they are Socialists and Communists and they are a very small percentage of our population. They will also get very upset if you try to lump them in with Obama and the Democratic party because they believe in something very different.

Well you can spin it any way you want, with your fact checkers and your college education; nevertheless, you can go to post 755 scroll down on that link and see them all LUMPED TOGETHER WITH THE UNIONS, marching side by side with the SEIU and AFL-CIO, and you cannot deny it! Marxist, Communist, Socialist, Progressive, Van Jones; birds of feather flock together, all I'm saying is these types are becoming far more imbedded in our society than deniers like yourself think; and if you think Obama is really all that different you are sadly mistaken. Big labor and BloBama are like peas and carrots, not that I expect you to understand the significance of that any more than Mr. LexToy. After all you're both wearing the same hat!

[rlovebk]

Unions were founded here for good reason. In the 80's they became complacent and operated with hubris, arrogance, and not aware of the guy in the white house and the road he was going to put us on, which I believe is what got us here today.
I was a proud Local 300 Laborers Union Member and a proud Local 30 ILWU Member and I believe the time for Unions has came again. Due to outsourcing, abusive labor practices, and many other reasons. I believe the first outfit that need to be unionized is Walmart.
Comparing all unions or even most to your extremist point of view is repulsive and not what the real movement is about at all. It is about rights and respect in the work place and fair pay and decent benefits with job protection without discrimination.
You can put what ever spin you want on it. I have actual experience and am now no longer union because I took a management position in the mine I work at which is still a union shop.

Now for the next change I'd like to propose to add to the list from yesterday: Dept. of Education....What for? This is a state funded state ran system is it not? The DoE should be reduced to 10 people. A director or whatever, (cabinet post appt. by prez, same as now) a Deputy Director, and 8 regional reps. Cut the USofA into 4 quarters and 2 per quarter. Their job would be to make sure the programs in 1 state are similar to another. So when you move from Ohio to Arizona and your child is in 4th grade they are on close to the same page. And it really needs to be stepped up. Either you do the work and pass or you fail. You do the work until you pass, or you fail. That we find what works and impliment it acroos the board. That they gather information from each state and that this info, when useful, is shared. Sort of like an informational clearing house where good programs are looked at and bad ones are discarded. Send all the rest of the money back to the schools where it belongs.

One of the reasons our education system is broken is due to too much b.s. Fed programs, etc. More $$ to the classroom. Get rid of the Fed money sponge.

[Mr. GP1800]

I was a proud Teamster for 12 years. Best work experience I have ever had working for an employer. I was treated fairly and decently, and could speak up without fear of retribution. Tell me how that is bad for a worker?????

[airbornexp]

Unions were founded here for good reason. In the 80's they became complacent and operated with hubris, arrogance, and not aware of the guy in the white house and the road he was going to put us on, which I believe is what got us here today.
I was a proud Local 300 Laborers Union Member and a proud Local 30 ILWU Member and I believe the time for Unions has came again. Due to outsourcing, abusive labor practices, and many other reasons. I believe the first outfit that need to be unionized is Walmart.
Comparing all unions or even most to your extremist point of view is repulsive and not what the real movement is about at all. It is about rights and respect in the work place and fair pay and decent benefits with job protection without discrimination.
You can put what ever spin you want on it. I have actual experience and am now no longer union because I took a management position in the mine I work at which is still a union shop.

Isnt this the reason that we created OSHA? I understand the use of unions before the creation of OSHA as it was a way to protect the workers. I really dont see what the use of unions are for today except to bleed a company dry (GM). I have had a series of chevys and you can tell a biiiig difference in the craftmanship. Why do people need to be protected at their job? If you are doing a good job and not being a screwball, yea, keep your job. Why protect the morons that produce poor craftsmanship for their right to a job? ex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzyRjX_pX5c yep, unions are working hard. I can tell you that the vehicles that I purchased I dont believe are worth what I paid for them but thats besides the point.

What do you mean "the time for the Unions ans came again"? Help me understand this. The reason people outsource is because they are getting a better quality job at a cheaper rate out of someone that wants to work over a union employee that thinks they "deserve" the job and go through the motions. Not just because they are cheaper For example, I have a friend that works at CAT and his only job was to put the lug nuts on the hub...thats it. not even tightening them down and hes getting paid $40hr to do that. Why does it take $83k a year to put on lug nuts? because its union and some jackass union delegate thinks he deserves it? He just got canned as the plant just started laying everyone off because its too expensive to keep them emploied while the factory is in a downturn. pretty sad if you ask me.

[rlovebk]

OSHA, not even in the same realm. As MSHA is for miners.
Unions do not bleed companies dry. Poor management, bad business practices, poorly engineered and lousy materials, oh, because they are cheap. Unions negotiate contracts. Companies and union sign them, that is business.

GM cars and components are designed by engineers from concepts and design guys. Then the parts are made by all sorts of different folks. And then the guy on the line, a fellow American, sometimes, puts what he is GIVEN by the aformentioned group(s) together. When it is a good design, quality materials and good assembly practices are used, you the consumer gets a good product. The corporation, lets say GM, likes to put the face of the union guy on it. That way when they design and put out a pile of crap you, the consumer, think of that union guy, that guy that put that sucky piece of trash together.
American workers are the best. Most productive. Best educated. We can do more with less than anyone.
Does your friend that works at CAT, does he deserve to make a decent living? Does he deserve to be able to help his kids have a decent life, buy them clothes, provide health care for them, or is he just a chump that should get peanuts and bring the standard of living down for the rest of us because if he makes a decent living then that really is a threat to you? B.S. I say.
All of these companies that have sent jobs every where but here, but want us all to design and buy all this stuff, well damn, I say send your friends job to lets say, Mexico or some where and then CAT can pay that guy a few peso's. And then your friend can collect unemployment and you can pay for all of this with tax money and he will help add to the unemployment % and then you can blame Obama and unions when actually we are ALL to blame because we have allowed this type of conversation to even exist.
I ask you to think about it. Think about what we have done, what we have allowed, and then you think about why there are and were unions. And you will answer your own question. If we stay on the path we are on, it will only get worse. Unions do alot more than just get decent pay and benefits. They protect jobs. Unless a company decides that it wants to go global, go cheap, and make disposable crap that we buy these days.
We can do better. But we have to demand better, instead of the "Whats in it for me, how cheap can I get that for" BS we all seem to want. I'd rather pay 5 dollars for goods made by an American, than pay 2.50 because it's cheap.

And your friend layed off. Is that the unions fault? Tell me how? CAT was recently touted as turning around and were making $$$. Guess it must have been all ratholed by the union huh?

Union jackass.... Americans.

[Beagleman62]

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2011/apr/01/who-wants-union-not-southern-autoworkers-it-seems/