Thanks obama and GM ...

[Mark]

Bullcrap does go "way beyond "cutting and pasting"..."

[airbornexp]

OSHA, not even in the same realm. As MSHA is for miners.
Unions do not bleed companies dry. Poor management, bad business practices, poorly engineered and lousy materials, oh, because they are cheap. Unions negotiate contracts. Companies and union sign them, that is business.

GM cars and components are designed by engineers from concepts and design guys. Then the parts are made by all sorts of different folks. And then the guy on the line, a fellow American, sometimes, puts what he is GIVEN by the aformentioned group(s) together. When it is a good design, quality materials and good assembly practices are used, you the consumer gets a good product. The corporation, lets say GM, likes to put the face of the union guy on it. That way when they design and put out a pile of crap you, the consumer, think of that union guy, that guy that put that sucky piece of trash together.
American workers are the best. Most productive. Best educated. We can do more with less than anyone.
Does your friend that works at CAT, does he deserve to make a decent living? Does he deserve to be able to help his kids have a decent life, buy them clothes, provide health care for them, or is he just a chump that should get peanuts and bring the standard of living down for the rest of us because if he makes a decent living then that really is a threat to you? B.S. I say.
All of these companies that have sent jobs every where but here, but want us all to design and buy all this stuff, well damn, I say send your friends job to lets say, Mexico or some where and then CAT can pay that guy a few peso's. And then your friend can collect unemployment and you can pay for all of this with tax money and he will help add to the unemployment % and then you can blame Obama and unions when actually we are ALL to blame because we have allowed this type of conversation to even exist.
I ask you to think about it. Think about what we have done, what we have allowed, and then you think about why there are and were unions. And you will answer your own question. If we stay on the path we are on, it will only get worse. Unions do alot more than just get decent pay and benefits. They protect jobs. Unless a company decides that it wants to go global, go cheap, and make disposable crap that we buy these days.
We can do better. But we have to demand better, instead of the "Whats in it for me, how cheap can I get that for" BS we all seem to want. I'd rather pay 5 dollars for goods made by an American, than pay 2.50 because it's cheap.

And your friend layed off. Is that the unions fault? Tell me how? CAT was recently touted as turning around and were making $$$. Guess it must have been all ratholed by the union huh?

Union jackass.... Americans.

Thank you for clarifying your point. As for my friend, I find it very hard to justify because he barely finished high school and hes making near what I make after Iwent to college for six years. I also find it difficult to pay someone that amount of cash to put lug nuts on a hub where I can find some guy that will do it for half that. Sorry but thats basic economics. I understand the fallout from this and it is a travesty. Currently the US cant compete in the global market due to this problem and thats why jobs are being shipped to other countries. we have to produce products elsewhere cheaper so that we can afford to pay the high cost of production here, the company has to make money otherwise no one will be employed. You are right, we CAN make a better product...but we have to be able to afford them first and thats where all these tax breaks come in. The more money that is available for companies to reinvest in their selves and their product the employee will have more money to spend in consumer goods, cars, vacations, ect. its all perpetual. One thing is for certian, it cant happen over night as we have become accustomed to. its going to take some time for these companies to come out of the hole and start being profitable again. I know its going to take me at least 3-4 years to stage a comeback to be solvent and im a small business in Illinois. Its going to take time and people in the country to be patient but you know as well as i do that will nit happen. everyone wants changes now as that is the condition that this country is in... dire need of help.

[YoYamma]

[Vikesfan]

Again, what do you think Obama has to do with gas prices? Gas prices are set globally, not just based on US policy. The expanding demand for gas in China and other developing markets is why gas is and will continue to get more expensive. It is not because we are not drilling or because of Obama's policies. We have actually quadrupled our active drilling rigs in the US under Obama and what have the oil companies done with the extra oil? They have shipped it to China and Europe at a rate of 20 million gallons per day. They did not pass the savings on to us because no oil company will sell to you for less than China or Europe will pay. That's free market capitalism and unless you are advocating that Obama (the government) starts controlling gas prices than there is nothing that he can or should do about it. The only way to actually reduce the cost of gas is to decrease demand. Because the US is only part of the equation it is difficult for us to make much of a dent in demand with the rapid industrialization of China and India. The only long term solution is to find alternatives, whether it be natural gas, hydrogen, electricity, methanol, or bio fuels. I don't even care if they are environmentally friendly. I just know that if we don't find something else we will continue to pay what the market will bear and those prices are not going down.

http://zfacts.com/p/35.html

[YoYamma]

Again, what do you think Obama has to do with gas prices? Gas prices are set globally, not just based on US policy. The expanding demand for gas in China and other developing markets is why gas is and will continue to get more expensive. It is not because we are not drilling or because of Obama's policies. We have actually quadrupled our active drilling rigs in the US under Obama and what have the oil companies done with the extra oil? They have shipped it to China and Europe at a rate of 20 million gallons per day. They did not pass the savings on to us because no oil company will sell to you for less than China or Europe will pay. That's free market capitalism and unless you are advocating that Obama (the government) starts controlling gas prices than there is nothing that he can or should do about it. The only way to actually reduce the cost of gas is to decrease demand. Because the US is only part of the equation it is difficult for us to make much of a dent in demand with the rapid industrialization of China and India. The only long term solution is to find alternatives, whether it be natural gas, hydrogen, electricity, methanol, or bio fuels. I don't even care if they are environmentally friendly. I just know that if we don't find something else we will continue to pay what the market will bear and those prices are not going down.

http://zfacts.com/p/35.html

Again, the fact that you believe Obama and his horde of Green Fanatics have no impact on energy costs is really sad but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. And gasoline is only part of the picture. We already covered the details on this back in Post 664, where you tried to give Mr. Chu a pass because he was hired AFTER he said this, and I crushed your argument by proving he was actually hired by Blobama LESS THAN 6 MONTHS after he said this. I'm not trying to make our exchanges into a round of whack-a-mole, but get ready, here it is again; try some corrective lenses this time...

"Somehow we have to figure out how
to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe"
- Steven Chu, Obama's Energy Secretary

MORE: Obama Wages War Against Cheap Energy

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhendrickson/2012/09/20/a-mean-green-obama-wages-war-against-cheap-energy/

[oklagp1200r]

Hey yoyo even before Oblowme became President he said that gas wasn't high enough needed to be more like Europe!
Oblowme devalued our dollar by borrowing and printing money, his energy policy sucks and not able to build new refinery's!
That's the problem and lets not leave out no new nuke facilities either!
What can Oblowme do about gas prices resign.

[Vikesfan]

Again, what do you think Obama has to do with gas prices? Gas prices are set globally, not just based on US policy. The expanding demand for gas in China and other developing markets is why gas is and will continue to get more expensive. It is not because we are not drilling or because of Obama's policies. We have actually quadrupled our active drilling rigs in the US under Obama and what have the oil companies done with the extra oil? They have shipped it to China and Europe at a rate of 20 million gallons per day. They did not pass the savings on to us because no oil company will sell to you for less than China or Europe will pay. That's free market capitalism and unless you are advocating that Obama (the government) starts controlling gas prices than there is nothing that he can or should do about it. The only way to actually reduce the cost of gas is to decrease demand. Because the US is only part of the equation it is difficult for us to make much of a dent in demand with the rapid industrialization of China and India. The only long term solution is to find alternatives, whether it be natural gas, hydrogen, electricity, methanol, or bio fuels. I don't even care if they are environmentally friendly. I just know that if we don't find something else we will continue to pay what the market will bear and those prices are not going down.

http://zfacts.com/p/35.html

Again, the fact that you believe Obama and his horde of Green Fanatics have no impact on energy costs is really sad but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. And gasoline is only part of the picture. We already covered the details on this back in Post 664, where you tried to give Mr. Chu a pass because he was hired AFTER he said this, and I crushed your argument by proving he was actually hired by Blobama LESS THAN 6 MONTHS after he said this. I'm not trying to make our exchanges into a round of whack-a-mole, but get ready, here it is again; try some corrective lenses this time...

"Somehow we have to figure out how
to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe"
- Steven Chu, Obama's Energy Secretary

MORE: Obama Wages War Against Cheap Energy
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhend...-cheap-energy/

So, what has Chu, with all his power as Energy Secretary, done to increase costs to the rate of Europe? Chu told the newspaper that he favored raising gasoline taxes gradually over 15 years to coax consumers into buying fuel-efficient cars and discouraging sprawl. "Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe," Chu said in an interview with the Journal in September 2008. So what has happened to the rate of gasoline taxes? They have stayed at the same rate of 18.4 cent per gallon that they have been at since 1993. To me actions speak louder than words and that quote that you keep bringing out doesn't ring true with reality. Yes, he said exactly what you have stated many times, but that is not what he has done. Your article that you attached to support your statement was also an Op/Ed piece and is an opinion, not a fact. I prefer to deal in reality and what has actually happened and not the fairy tale world that you seem to be living in. You can blame plenty of things on Obama, but gas prices are not one of them.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/mar/14/newt-gingrich/gingrich-said-energy-secretary-advocated-raising-g/

[oklagp1200r]

Hahahahaha
Lolololololo
Lmfao
I guess its still Bush's fault then right? LOL

[Dyoung]

Hahahahaha
Lolololololo
Lmfao
I guess its still Bush's fault then right? LOL

You're missing the point. It's not Bush's fault. It's not Obama's fault. We export damn near 40 percent of the oil that we produce here. They sell it to china,india and other countries that are rapidly growing. Why? Because they make more money selling it to them. That in turn drives costs up here which is what they "oil companies" want. A vicious cycle.

[oklagp1200r]

I'm not missing nothing read post 772!
Your right about the exports tho!
Why store it here because of the lack of refinery's when you can sell it on a open market!

[YoYamma]

So, what has Chu, with all his power as Energy Secretary, done to increase costs to the rate of Europe? Chu told the newspaper that he favored raising gasoline taxes gradually over 15 years to coax consumers into buying fuel-efficient cars and discouraging sprawl. "Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe," Chu said in an interview with the Journal in September 2008. So what has happened to the rate of gasoline taxes? They have stayed at the same rate of 18.4 cent per gallon that they have been at since 1993. To me actions speak louder than words and that quote that you keep bringing out doesn't ring true with reality. Yes, he said exactly what you have stated many times, but that is not what he has done. Your article that you attached to support your statement was also an Op/Ed piece and is an opinion, not a fact. I prefer to deal in reality and what has actually happened and not the fairy tale world that you seem to be living in. You can blame plenty of things on Obama, but gas prices are not one of them.

I solidly disagree; these sky-high prices happened to Dubbya and he dealt with it quickly, as soon as he signaled to the oil pimps of the world that we were serious about developing our own resources, prices dropped almost overnight! Geez, I remember this like it was yesterday; where were you, in college class?

This community organizer has already rolled over and accepted gas prices higher then many families can afford; the sad part is if he gets reelected this will be viewed by the industry as a green light for his war on energy, and they are going to keep heading toward the prices in Europe. Even sadder still, you are actually prepared to reelect Obama again and empower the process!

Obama WILL NEVER TRY TO LOWER THE COST; Obama has already admitted under his policies our energy costs will SKYROCKET, but like millions of other sheep you refuse to take him at his word because you're too busy washing his balls. Chu will never do anything to lower gas prices, HE ALREADY SAID IT WASN'T HIS GOAL; if conservatives in Congress had never called his creepy azz out on the carpet and put his real goals into the national spotlight your gas prices would already be over $5 a gallon; remember this bird-brained climate change fanatic wants a "glucose-based economy." Translation: like all green fanatics, he hates your cars, your trucks, your snowmobiles and your personal watercraft and he intends to control their use even if it means putting you and your children in a crackerbox electric death trap on wheels.

These fools are dedicated to destroying American energy in the name of "climate change" and people like you and the ganja smoking plumber are perfectly happy to see them do it. WAKE UP SON; if your Kenyan usurper had his way we would currently be under a CAP-AND TRADE scam to gather penalties from American business for producing "CARBON."

Good gosh, where were you when he tried to get that jammed thru, at a college football game?

As I have said before, Obama and Chu don't want cheaper energy, they want you to "reduce your carbon footprint" by using less, driving less, boating less, riding your PWC less and LIVING LESS. I know it, you know it and the conservatives on Green Hulk know it.

'Little Obama Can Do' About Gas Prices?
Four Years Ago, Bush's Move to Drill Dropped Barrel Price -- And Media Covered It Up

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2012/03/14/little-obama-can-do-about-gas-prices-four-years-ago-bushs-move-drill-dro#ixzz28GIn0XCH

[rlovebk]

Bottom line is oil is a commodity and I believe the prez and others can have some affect on the price but not alot. If that were the case then Bush failed too as the price almost reached 5$ here in Ca. on his watch. Oh, but we'll blame this on Obama. Bottom line is you are not able to see beyond your hate and you have not the ability to reason or develope any real ability to express anything beyond a bunch of baloney. Tell us your solution and why you think prices are high? And come up with something on your own and something more extensive than "Defeat Obama 2012" and your typical dropping of all things assunder on the lap of the current administration. And articulate your own theory and/or solution. Any one can cut/paste/photoshop like you and some others.

Oil is a big dilema for us in this country. The sooner we devise other ways to move goods and ourselves around the better. By the way, a friend at work bought a Volt. He travels 60 miles each way to work. He paid 25.oo last month to run his car. (I can not/have no data to verify, this is what he said) I will ask him next week when I go back to work what it costs to run his car. It is a very nice looking car also.

The lack of refineries is part of the oil co's big idea to keep prices high. Alot of people will say its the greens, blablabla, but it is not really. They can manipulate the price much easier and justify it when capacity = demand. So it really would not pay for them to have excess capacity to refine.

By the way airbornexp, I have less education then your friend that works(ed?) at CAT. Many people that are great entreprenuers are high school/college drop-outs. Education at times is just a sheepskin. But you would generally enjoy an advantage trying to find decent paying work if reason were to present itself as uposed to those of us that do not posess a degree.

[mjh3ides]

All of this I agree with. Although I'd say maybe 3 terms combined between the House & Senate, because I think there is something to be said for experience.

Yeah, I'll say. Experience is what got us here. I have heard this for a while now. And if today is what we reap from these guys experience, then we do not need it.

You're preaching to the choir.

Since the 1980's there has been a huge change in the share of the $$ in this country that are now held by very few and not by a larger chunk of the middle class.

As far as pensions go, my father has been in the banking business for 50+ years. He retired from a bank in Arizona. They gave him a retirement (pension) for his 30 years of service. This was a private, non union pension. It was a similar program to what most companies offered back then. Instead of outsized CEO pay, pie - in - the - sky stock options, and the "Creating Value" bs buzzwords we hear these days, companies took care of their employees.

Many companies contribute to their employees' 401k plans. The main difference from a pension, & the reason 401k's have become more popular with workers, is you have your retirement funds in an individual account that can't be raided by companies in dire straits, & you have the ability to take that money with you & roll your funds into another qualified plan if you change jobs. Are those bad things?

The 401K was meant to be a suplemental plan for people to put away more for retirement. And it is a good example of what would/could have happened to SS if it were privatized. And wonder why CEO's and their ilk were wanting that?

This statement makes me think you don't understand what a 401k is & how it works. It's just a more modern vehicle for retirement planning, which allows people to have more control over how their money is invested, gives people the security of owning the account instead of relying on the company you worked for to be solvent when you retire & gives you the benefit of tax deferred growth. Of course the leaders of the big unions hate these plans because it takes away the huge pools of money they used to be able to borrow from to buy political clout.

In fact read lextoys comments...

No thanks.

[Vikesfan]

So, what has Chu, with all his power as Energy Secretary, done to increase costs to the rate of Europe? Chu told the newspaper that he favored raising gasoline taxes gradually over 15 years to coax consumers into buying fuel-efficient cars and discouraging sprawl. "Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe," Chu said in an interview with the Journal in September 2008. So what has happened to the rate of gasoline taxes? They have stayed at the same rate of 18.4 cent per gallon that they have been at since 1993. To me actions speak louder than words and that quote that you keep bringing out doesn't ring true with reality. Yes, he said exactly what you have stated many times, but that is not what he has done. Your article that you attached to support your statement was also an Op/Ed piece and is an opinion, not a fact. I prefer to deal in reality and what has actually happened and not the fairy tale world that you seem to be living in. You can blame plenty of things on Obama, but gas prices are not one of them.

I solidly disagree; these sky-high prices happened to Dubbya and he dealt with it quickly, as soon as he signaled to the oil pimps of the world that we were serious about developing our own resources, prices dropped almost overnight! Geez, I remember this like it was yesterday; where were you, in college class?

This community organizer has already rolled over and accepted gas prices higher then many families can afford; the sad part is if he gets reelected this will be viewed by the industry as a green light for his war on energy, and they are going to keep heading toward the prices in Europe. Even sadder still, you are actually prepared to reelect Obama again and empower the process!

Obama WILL NEVER TRY TO LOWER THE COST; Obama has already admitted under his policies our energy costs will SKYROCKET, but like millions of other sheep you refuse to take him at his word because you're too busy washing his balls. Chu will never do anything to lower gas prices, HE ALREADY SAID IT WASN'T HIS GOAL; if conservatives in Congress had never called his creepy azz out on the carpet and put his real goals into the national spotlight your gas prices would already be over $5 a gallon; remember this bird-brained climate change fanatic wants a "glucose-based economy." Translation: like all green fanatics, he hates your cars, your trucks, your snowmobiles and your personal watercraft and he intends to control their use even if it means putting you and your children in a crackerbox electric death trap on wheels.

These fools are dedicated to destroying American energy in the name of "climate change" and people like you and the ganja smoking plumber are perfectly happy to see them do it. WAKE UP SON; if your Kenyan usurper had his way we would currently be under a CAP-AND TRADE scam to gather penalties from American business for producing "CARBON."

Good gosh, where were you when he tried to get that jammed thru, at a college football game?

As I have said before, Obama and Chu don't want cheaper energy, they want you to "reduce your carbon footprint" by using less, driving less, boating less, riding your PWC less and LIVING LESS. I know it, you know it and the conservatives on Green Hulk know it.

'Little Obama Can Do' About Gas Prices?
Four Years Ago, Bush's Move to Drill Dropped Barrel Price -- And Media Covered It Up

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2012/03/14/little-obama-can-do-about-gas-prices-four-years-ago-bushs-move-drill-dro#ixzz28GIn0XCH

So many words but no facts to back any of it up. What else would I expect from someone who still hasn't been able to explain what socialism really is and clearly doesn't understand free market capitalism either. I have no problem with the fact that you hate Obama. There are many reasons to disagree with his policies. My problem is that you are one of the loudest complainers about Obama on here but have no actual facts to back up any of your statements. Ask yourself something when you are watching the debates tonight. If what you are saying about Obama is true, why isn't Romney attacking him about it at the debates? If what you say has any truth to it he should be able to bury Obama in the first 30 minutes of the debate and have the election wrapped up by the end of the week. I'm sure you will make up some conspiracy theory for the reasons why but the fact remains that if it was true he would, and should, use it to his advantage. Like the saying goes, "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."

The truth about oil prices, Obama, and refineries:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-02-23/angry-about-high-gas-prices-blame-shuttered-oil-refineries

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/03/17/the-truth-about-obama-oil-and-the-gasoline-blame-game-part-two/

And if you ever get around to researching what Socialism is, make sure to check out this interesting fact about the Pledge of Allegiance. It was written by Francis Bellamy, who was an actual Socialist.

[Dyoung]

I'm not missing nothing read post 772!
Your right about the exports tho!
Why store it here because of the lack of refinery's when you can sell it on a open market!

I read it....enlighten me.......the lack of refineries is a joke.....we export 40% of our oil, then turn around and import roughly the same amount.The imported oil still has to be stored and then processed into fuel....how does this make any sense?.....They do it because it makes them obscene profits...PERIOD