Who wants to run small rivers?

[armorjet]

I live in Olympia,WA. For the last two years I have been running rivers with my detachable aluminum hull. Its a lot of fun. But I would like to run rivers with other people. I can make hulls for other PWCs. I use a wetsuit, so riding in cold weather is no problem. Just not freezing temperatures. Some of the best riding is after big rains. I posted a video in the video section. There is a learning curve going from lakes or saltwater to rivers. You really need to be a good rider. I will warn you that once you get a taste for rivers, lakes will never be the same. Who has what it takes?

[K447]

I live in Olympia,WA. For the last two years I have been running rivers with my detachable aluminum hull...

I can make hulls for other PWCs...

Have you posted about how you make the aluminum hulls?

What is involved in converting a PWC to be river ready?

What about the jet pump and intake grate? What protection against small stones, gravel and sand going through the jet pump?

Have you seen how Seadoo does their SAR model with a bonded second hull?

[armorjet]

These hulls are marine grade aluminum welded together. A Half inch thick, water jet cut, aluminum rock grate keeps the rocks out. I also have made a 3/8ths thick SS rock grate. Im using it right now, but I think its overkill. The hull straps on with 5 ratchet straps. It works great. I have worked out all the kinks with my two prototype hulls. The only mod to the jet ski is I put a prop saver on the water line coming off the pump to keep tiny rocks out of the the engine. I have had zero problems with rocks in the last two years. My inmpeller looks great. I can ride in inches of water. Not that you would want to do that all day.

[armorjet]

[K447]

These hulls are marine grade aluminum welded together. A Half inch thick, water jet cut, aluminum rock grate keeps the rocks out. I also have made a 3/8ths thick SS rock grate. Im using it right now, but I think its overkill.

The hull straps on with 5 ratchet straps. It works great. I have worked out all the kinks with my two prototype hulls.

The only mod to the jet ski is I put a prop saver on the water line coming off the pump to keep tiny rocks out of the the engine.

I have had zero problems with rocks in the last two years. My impeller looks great. I can ride in inches of water. Not that you would want to do that all day.

Are there pads or some sort of lining on the inside to protect the hull gel coat (paint)?

No abuse of the wear ring around the impeller?

[armorjet]

My hulls are lined with foam. I was expecting more wear and tear on the PWC, but everthing seems fine. I just took pulled my impeller out to inspect it. Looks great. Wear ring still looks good also. My guess is that when I am up on plane, the rocks just don't have time to get sucked up into the impeller. You do want to be carefull starting out, unless your in deep water. Being able to read the water helps also. With all that said, I do still expect a little more wear and tear, I just have not seen it yet. But thats part of running rivers. Concerns like what you are asking about are valid, but just not a big problem. Jet boaters run these same rivers all the time. In fact, I bet I can take far more abuse to my hull because of the design. Aluminum plus foam plus stock fiberglass hull equals one tuff machine. The foam protects the gel coat and absorbs impacts. I beat the hell out of my first hull. It did have a few dents, but I'm using stronger aluminum on my second hull. I can still hit about 45+ MPH with the hull attached. I think Im only losing about 5 MPH.

[CJ River Rider]

Interesting idea, I assume you are going to market these soon? This would be ideal for the middle & upper Delaware where it gets really shallow & rocky.

[armorjet]

I just put craigslist ads up for Seattle and Portland 4 days ago, 1850 per hull right now. These first hulls I make will be custom made. I just started this business. Armorjet.com I want to make a hand full of pre-production(custom) hulls before moving to production hulls. There are lots of different size PWC hulls out there with lots of different dead rises. I will end up with about 4 or 5 designs that will work on most PWCs out there. I have a 2015 Seadoo spark 2 up coming next month. I will be able to build and ship these hulls pretty soon. I plan to contract to builders across North America as soon as possible. I would like to have regional builders. That way it will keep shipping costs down, and will be able to get these to people a lot faster. I would rather make a little off a lot of hulls then make a lot of a few.

[K447]

... I just started this business. Armorjet.com

... There are lots of different size PWC hulls out there with lots of different dead rises. I will end up with about 4 or 5 designs that will work on most PWCs out there.

... I would rather make a little off a lot of hulls then make a lot of a few.

Be careful you don't end up making a little money per hull on few sales.

Lower sales volume at higher prices (higher profit per hull) might be an easier business to keep a handle on. Involving additional builders creates challenges with quality control, consistency, and design control. Customer feedback loops and rapid design/production/manufacturing efficiency revisions can slow down when there are more process layers and people between you and the end customer.

I have no idea how large the addressable market is for your product, nor do I have any idea what price the initial market would bear. You can be profitable early on and then lower prices as things scale up, but it is harder to start with a lower price and scale over time if there is minimal profit in the early going.

Other thoughts, in no particular order;

Tigershark seems like an unusual hull brand to use as a demonstration model. Are you thinking people will want to use old/cheap/disposable watercraft for river running with your hulls?

Or are you aiming at the demographic that has money available for watercraft 'toys' and is willing to spend some more to do 'something different'? In which case the machines are liable to be much newer and probably larger.

Liability... Your video shows close encounters with sharp tree ends and large rocks. Sell enough of your hulls and someone will inevitably hit things and hurt themselves. Make sure you understand the liability risks for yourself and your business before you start selling these.

Video does not show the actual product, without the watercraft. No info on how it is actually attached.

How do you get it installed underneath the heavy watercraft? Must it be installed or removed while in the water at the launch ramp?

How do you transport and store it when it is not attached to the PWC?

How heavy is it?

[armorjet]

K447, you have a good point about contracting to others. Liability. There will always be people out there that will sue. Thats why I put the disclaimer in the video. Armorjet is also a LLC. That gives me some liability protection. But I get your point. The video was filmed to be more of a teaser, and to show that these things exsist. My new Seadoo spark coming in Jan. will be my "flagship". I didn't show how to put the hull on because the tigershark isn't going to be my main ski. I will be filming a much better video in Feb or March using the Spark. The hull comes in around 100 pounds. I can take the hull out of the bed of my K5 and set it on the shore by my self, but I would recommend two people because of the size. The hull will more or less float. You just push the PWC right up into the hull and strap it down. Once straped down, the hull dosn't move. The tigershark is a great test platform. It was cheap. Pretty fast. And because of the deadrise, is stable in the water. Demographic. Im not sure yet. And because this is a new product, I dont think anyone can really say. But, I like the idea of people having he chance to run the same rivers that the big expensive jetsboats do, at a much lower cost. The 1850 price is for these next few hulls I build. They will be test platforms also. The price will go up, but I will keep them affordable. This is whats great about my hulls. It doesn't matter if you have a old 2 stroke like the tigershark or a new deeper V hulled supercharged PWC. They will all do good in skinny water if they have the right hull attached. What I really want is to grow this as a new take on jetboating. I want there to be lots skis on the rivers. Not just old men with 50000 dollar jetboats. No offense to old men with 50000 dollar jetboats. I wish I had one.

[K447]

.. The hull will more or less float. You just push the PWC right up into the hull and strap it down.

... Demographic. Im not sure yet. And because this is a new product, I don't think anyone can really say. But, I like the idea of people having the chance to run the same rivers that the big expensive jetboats do, at a much lower cost.

... The 1850 price is for these next few hulls I build. They will be test platforms also. The price will go up, but I will keep them affordable.

This is whats great about my hulls. It doesn't matter if you have a old 2 stroke like the tigershark or a new deeper V hulled supercharged PWC. They will all do good in skinny water if they have the right hull attached.

What I really want is to grow this as a new take on jetboating. I want there to be lots skis on the rivers. Not just old men with 50000 dollar jetboats. No offense to old men with 50000 dollar jetboats. I wish I had one.

Price
Try rounding up. If the early adopters balk at the price, then perhaps demand is too price sensitive for the product, which casts a dark shadow into the future.

If the early market is NOT price sensitive, then perhaps it would be optimal (for you) to price at or just below what the market will bear. If the readily accessible market is men with lots of toy money to burn, take their money. They will be happy to help you build out the initial business and fund the inevitable stumbling blocks and unexpected costs and delays. A primary need of any business is positive cash flow. More money coming in than going out, preferably much more coming in.

If you want to see lots of these things on rivers, you must not go out of business along the way.

Hulls - perhaps a different word would work better. Most watercraft already have a hull. Shell, river shield, ???

The modern machines with huge engine power may be able to drive your 'hull' to rather high speeds. Handling and stability will be different than stock since your hull is shaped differently. Testing on each supported make/model may be needed to verify that there are no surprises, especially things that could cause injury or loss of control. Not just on river water, but also in big waves and flat water at various speeds; porpoising, sudden direction changes, brakes (Seadoo and Yamaha both offer braking now), jet pump cavitation or ventilation, engine cooling, etc. Seadoo uses the ride plate for cooling on most models, the Spark has a heat exchanger cooling plate on the bottom.

Testing will cost money and time, of course.

Not testing adds to the liability risk.

Seadoo Spark. I wonder if people would buy a Spark just to use your product?

Do have a look at the Seadoo SAR product. There might be a secondary (or primary) market for you with law enforcement, search and rescue, state and national parks patrol, border patrol, etc.

I suspect you want the product to definitely float. Buyers might worry it might slip away into the deep should they screw up the straps or just 'shit happens'.

[04gtxsc]

Sometimes folks have great ideas but do not figure in the costs associated with getting the product to the end user. The shipping costs. If it costs too much folks wont buy it. Would be glad to help you through that challenge call me.
316-943-1468

[K447]

... shipping costs...

+1

Not only shipping the product to the customer, but also warranty returns, screw ups, incorrect or incomplete addresses, customer changes, undeliverable addresses, expedited shipments, order cancellation after shipment has left your facility, etc.

Customer just wants you to fix the problem, and typically wants you absorb the costs.

You need enough profit margin to cope with the shipping related expenses, especially the unexpected stuff.

[04gtxsc]

Like Keith says lots of challenges with the transportation. for instance this shipment from Olympia to Philadelphia are to a residence is $35. If you send it to a business you are looking at $257.00. Big difference. I think it is a great idea and in fact I have a friend that lived in Alaska and they do something similar to their skis to run up creeks and such.

[armorjet]

I think PWCs like the spark will be the future of river riding with hulls like mine. They have high power to weight ratio and they are cheap. I thought of calling my product a skid plate. That really is what it is. These hulls/skid plates, do change how the PWC feels in the water. With the tigershark, it tends to drift a bit in the rear. Which is fun. The deeper v hulls with high deadrises will be a little more planted. I wont loose any money selling these next few hulls at 1850 plus tax. That price is having people drive to me with their ski, so I can make sure it fits. These hulls won't be for everyone. Because I will have a Spark, It will be the first Hull to have a more solid price and that I could ship. Shipping wont be cheap, and Im not sure how it will need to happen yet, but I will cross that bridge later. Its the size that will be a pain. 04gtxsc, thanks for the offer. I will save the number. As far as the final price. It will depend on what its going on. But I wont know this until I build more. It will be under 3k for sure. Not including tax or shipping. I can build these first few cheap because I have almost no overhead, right now. I have a margin in my head that I want to hit. My full time job is a Sales Manager. I understand margin. There are lots of factors. Of course, shipping will have to be added to any being shipped. No matter how this shakes out, i will offer a quality product at a good price, what ever that will be. I still need to get my first sales. I just want to make a living having fun. Im going to just keep moving foward. I thought about this product for 8 years before buying the first aluminum and welder. I think I have something that people will want. It works better then I ever thought it would. I keep this in mind, "If you build it, they will come".